hobie: Taking Insurance

[hobie]

As one who has not played for a long time, but who will be playing in Las Vegas next month, I have a question about taking insurance. My recollection is that, for a counter, taking insurance always seemed to be a dead giveaway (at least in the single-deck games I used to play in Reno and Tahoe). I expect to be playing six-deck games, taking insurance when the count warrants it and also when I have a natural (as a cover, such as it is). Should I be concerned that I will be seen as a counter, and, if so, is there a better way to play insurance?

[mr k]

I wouldn't even give it a second thought...easiest play to disguise...geeh I think you have it this time vs. nah you can't have it again, etc. the possibilties are endless. All your doing is making another/separate wager!!! EZ decision and execution.

> As one who has not played for a long time,
> but who will be playing in Las Vegas next
> month, I have a question about taking
> insurance. My recollection is that, for a
> counter, taking insurance always seemed to
> be a dead giveaway (at least in the
> single-deck games I used to play in Reno and
> Tahoe). I expect to be playing six-deck
> games, taking insurance when the count
> warrants it and also when I have a natural
> (as a cover, such as it is). Should I be
> concerned that I will be seen as a counter,
> and, if so, is there a better way to play
> insurance?

[Parker]

> As one who has not played for a long time,
> but who will be playing in Las Vegas next
> month, I have a question about taking
> insurance. My recollection is that, for a
> counter, taking insurance always seemed to
> be a dead giveaway (at least in the
> single-deck games I used to play in Reno and
> Tahoe). I expect to be playing six-deck
> games, taking insurance when the count
> warrants it and also when I have a natural
> (as a cover, such as it is). Should I be
> concerned that I will be seen as a counter,
> and, if so, is there a better way to play
> insurance?

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Just don't "camp out" at any one casino for an extended period of time.

I sometimes will take insurance the first time it is offered, especially if I have a good hand, regardless of whether the count calls for it. In addition to providing a bit of cover, this also alerts the dealer to the fact that I do occasionally take insurance. Some dealers, after the first few times when no one at the table takes insurance, barely give the players a chance before checking the hole card.

[Victoria]

> Some dealers, after the first few times when
> no one at the table takes insurance, barely
> give the players a chance before checking
> the hole card.

Parker
And once a visit you can use the dealer not giving you a chance of buying insurance as an advantage play. As long as you do not visit often.
Victoria

[MJ]

Lets say the dealer doesnt give you a chance to buy insurance and has BJ. Now would he have to pay the ENTIRE table even money on all their bets? They would have lost anyway assuming they didnt have a natural...so I guess the net result would be no money exchanging hands?

-MJ

> Parker
> And once a visit you can use the dealer not
> giving you a chance of buying insurance as
> an advantage play. As long as you do not
> visit often.
> Victoria

[stainless steel rat]

> Lets say the dealer doesnt give you a chance
> to buy insurance and has BJ. Now would he
> have to pay the ENTIRE table even money on
> all their bets? They would have lost anyway
> assuming they didnt have a natural...so I
> guess the net result would be no money
> exchanging hands?

> -MJ

No. You bet $50. You get a 20, dealer gets an A. Dealer doesn't ask you for insurance and flips over the 10. You say "wait, I wanted insurance." There is a discussion with the pit. Either the entire round is voided, or they have to give you or everyone insurance option (which all would now take since the 21 is showing), you lose nothing. Otherwise you would have lost your $50. Rest of the table probably would "push" as well but who cares..

This has happened to me more than once, but _very_ infrequently. It's only important when the dealer flips over the 10 of course.

[MJ]

So from the casinos perspective the best thing for them to do in this situation is to void the hand right? Otherwise everyone will take the insurance option b/c the 21 is showing and they would lose money on the round.

This sounds like a good defensive play for the player provided the dealer doesnt offer insurance.

-MJ

> No. You bet $50. You get a 20, dealer gets
> an A. Dealer doesn't ask you for insurance
> and flips over the 10. You say "wait, I
> wanted insurance." There is a
> discussion with the pit. Either the entire
> round is voided, or they have to give you or
> everyone insurance option (which all would
> now take since the 21 is showing), you lose
> nothing. Otherwise you would have lost your
> $50. Rest of the table probably would
> "push" as well but who cares..

> This has happened to me more than once, but
> _very_ infrequently. It's only important
> when the dealer flips over the 10 of course.

[Illusion1]

Put the money out there on the insurance line, just grab chips, if your bet is 2 units put 5 out there. The dealer will correct the insurance bet buying you time to get your count and let get your true count. If you find now you shouldn't take insurance as your count has droped you can pull the chips back saying "ah forget it" or something
like that as the dealer corrects the insurance bet.

I found that if no one has been taking insurance they will open and close it in one fast hand sweep.

Illusion

[Parker]

> So from the casinos perspective the best
> thing for them to do in this situation is to
> void the hand right? Otherwise everyone will
> take the insurance option b/c the 21 is
> showing and they would lose money on the
> round.

So? Suppose we have an enlightened pit critter. He quickly surveys the situation and notices that the biggest bet on the table is a couple of black chips. He coyly asks, "Did anyone want to take insurance?" Naturally, everyone at that table develops a sudden desire to take insurance. He nods to the dealer, who pays everyone.

He has just given away an insignificant amount of money (to the casino), and has everyone at the table talking about what a wonderful casino this is.

[Brick]

It's more difficult than flop counting but I'm always a step ahead of the dealer and decisions can be made quickly.

> Put the money out there on the insurance
> line, just grab chips, if your bet is 2
> units put 5 out there. The dealer will
> correct the insurance bet buying you time to
> get your count and let get your true count.
> If you find now you shouldn't take insurance
> as your count has droped you can pull the
> chips back saying "ah forget it"
> or something
> like that as the dealer corrects the
> insurance bet.

> I found that if no one has been taking
> insurance they will open and close it in one
> fast hand sweep.

> Illusion

[MJ]

Actually I think what I said previously is incorrect...assuming no player at the table had a natural, and now suddenly everybody takes insurance the net result would be that neither the players nor the casino would lose money. All the players bets would lose but the insurance wagers would allow them to break even.

Now if the pit boss voids the round then again nobody loses any money. So regardless what the pit boss decides to do at this point, the net result will be the same. Is that right?

> So? Suppose we have an enlightened pit
> critter. He quickly surveys the situation
> and notices that the biggest bet on the
> table is a couple of black chips. He coyly
> asks, "Did anyone want to take
> insurance?" Naturally, everyone at that
> table develops a sudden desire to take
> insurance. He nods to the dealer, who pays
> everyone.

> He has just given away an insignificant
> amount of money (to the casino), and has
> everyone at the table talking about what a
> wonderful casino this is.

[Parker]

> Actually I think what I said previously is
> incorrect...assuming no player at the table
> had a natural, and now suddenly everybody
> takes insurance the net result would be that
> neither the players nor the casino would
> lose money. All the players bets would lose
> but the insurance wagers would allow them to
> break even.

> Now if the pit boss voids the round then
> again nobody loses any money. So regardless
> what the pit boss decides to do at this
> point, the net result will be the same. Is
> that right?

Good point. In no scenario does the casino lose money. Of course, why should they? The dealer did have a blackjack. Of course, the casino makes the most money if the PB decides to be a prick and not let anybody do anything. From a PR standpoint, I think the best course of action would be to let everyone take insurance.

Besides, there would probably be at least one idiot who would say, "No thanks, not me. I never take insurance!" :-)

[Dog Hand]

Besides, there would probably be at least one idiot who would say, "No thanks, not me. I never take insurance!" :-)

Parker,

This happened at my table one time, in marvelous Marksville. Finally, the dealer, the pit boss, the other players, and I convinced him that insurance isn't always a sucker bet!

Dog Hand