I use the hi-lo systems for years now.How much i increase my hourly winings if I have a side count of aces?How is it used practically?
I use the hi-lo systems for years now.How much i increase my hourly winings if I have a side count of aces?How is it used practically?
> I use the hi-lo systems for years now.How
> much i increase my hourly winings if I have
> a side count of aces?How is it used
> practically?
Practically speaking, it isn't used in HiLoAt least by many people lately. The gain isn't large enough for the effort required. The procedure is as follows:
[*]Calculate the number of excess Aces (may be negative) in the remaining cards
[*]Multiply the number of excess Aces by the absolute value of the point count value assigned by the current strategy to Ten-value cards (normally one or two)
[*]Temporarily subtract the result from the running count
[*]Recalculate the true count for strategy decision purposes only
[*]If this is an Insurance decision, temporarily subtract double the result from the running count
[*]Recalculate the true count for Insurance purposes only
[/list]
However, and this is important, you need to use different index tables. Stanford had a set of index tables for this purpose in the original version of Professional Blackjack. But I believe they were removed from the 1994 edition; presumably since they are little used.
For more info on side counts see:
When calculating the "number of excess aces," do you mean excess to what should be remaining if the cards were not shuffled? Say that we are playing a 6 deck shoe game and 3 decks have been already dealt, since there are 3 decks left and there are 4 aces per deck, should we assume 12 aces and then calculate the excess/deficit based on the side count? I want to be sure I understand this in case I choose to employ this in my play.
Also where can the modified tables be obtained from? I highly doubt that the edition of _Professional_Blackjack_ that I have has the tables since I bought it several years post 1993.
> Practically speaking, it isn't used in
> HiLo
> gain isn't large enough for the effort
> required. The procedure is as follows:
> Calculate the number of excess Aces (may
> be negative) in the remaining cards
> Multiply the number of excess Aces by the
> absolute value of the point count value
> assigned by the current strategy to
> Ten-value cards (normally one or two)
> Temporarily subtract the result from the
> running count Recalculate the true count
> for strategy decision purposes only If
> this is an Insurance decision, temporarily
> subtract double the result from the
> running count Recalculate the true count
> for Insurance purposes only However, and
> this is important, you need to use different
> index tables. Stanford had a set of index
> tables for this purpose in the original
> version of Professional Blackjack. But I
> believe they were removed from the 1994
> edition; presumably since they are little
> used.
> For more info on side counts see:
I believe the gain is better than most people realize if you look at the SCORE or DI. The gain is greatest in 1 deck and less in multideck games.
There is no need to estimate excess or deficit of aces. Simply subtract the number of unplayed aces from your HiLo running count. This converts the HiLo to the following unbalanced count tags:
A=0
2=1
3=1
4=1
5=1
6=1
7=0
8=0
9=0
T=-1
Once you have your adjusted count, simply do a TC conversion for playing decisions and insurance. For example, with this count insure at -1 (I just use 0 for insurance index). For your indices you can just subtract 4 from your HiLo indices and you are in the ballpark.
This whole system was explained in the Summer 1998 Blackjack forum.
Give me the details of the game you play, penetration and rules and I will sim it for you and show you the difference in SCORES.
Toffler
> When calculating the "number of excess
> aces," do you mean excess to what
> should be remaining if the cards were not
> shuffled? Say that we are playing a 6 deck
> shoe game and 3 decks have been already
> dealt, since there are 3 decks left and
> there are 4 aces per deck, should we assume
> 12 aces and then calculate the
> excess/deficit based on the side count?
Yes
> Also where can the modified tables be
> obtained from? I highly doubt that the
> edition of _Professional_Blackjack_ that I
> have has the tables since I bought it
> several years post 1993.
CV used to have them. I removed them because they confused people. Might be able to find an old copy of ProBJ at Gambler's Book Club. Afraid mine's in storage.
For a wacky alternative to what you're talking about, start with hi-lo for betting purposes, then side count aces and 7s together at +1 a piece. You end up with these tags for playing purposes:
A=0
2=1
3=1
4=1
5=1
6=1
7=1
8=0
9=0
T=-1
For SD play, you can expect 15%+ better SCORES over straight hi-lo, especially spreading 1-3 or 1-4(note that I'm comparing the complete versions of the two systems). You'll do slightly worse with the system you're describing, though still better than straight hi-lo.
-Myoo
> I believe the gain is better than most
> people realize if you look at the SCORE or
> DI. The gain is greatest in 1 deck and less
> in multideck games.
> There is no need to estimate excess or
> deficit of aces. Simply subtract the number
> of unplayed aces from your HiLo running
> count. This converts the HiLo to the
> following unbalanced count tags:
> A=0
> 2=1
> 3=1
> 4=1
> 5=1
> 6=1
> 7=0
> 8=0
> 9=0
> T=-1
> Once you have your adjusted count, simply do
> a TC conversion for playing decisions and
> insurance. For example, with this count
> insure at -1 (I just use 0 for insurance
> index). For your indices you can just
> subtract 4 from your HiLo indices and you
> are in the ballpark.
> This whole system was explained in the
> Summer 1998 Blackjack forum.
> Give me the details of the game you play,
> penetration and rules and I will sim it for
> you and show you the difference in SCORES.
> Toffler
The game is 5/6decks,das,no resplit aces.
The spread is 1-20.I want to know the differnce on hourly winings as well.
Thank you in advance.
> I use the hi-lo systems for years now.How
> much i increase my hourly winings if I have
> a side count of aces?How is it used
> practically?
\\
If you are interested in ace side counts for betting purposes look into ho-opt1. It is easier than hi-lo with side, and Ill. 18 indices are similar. Found in "Worlds Greatest BJ book"
Cheers DL
I think the gain is not so negligible. Take a look at my sims for 6D and then just imagine (unfortunately I don't have the sims) what would the gain be for hand-held games.
1-4 1-8 1-12 1-16 1-20
Hi-Lo/A 10.80 27.77 37.02 42.69 46.55
Hi-Lo 9.61 25.83 34.84 40.43 44.24
The game analyzed is 6D,S17,DOA,DAS,SPA1,SPL3,NS,5/6,Catch-22 floored indices,heads up,5000 million rounds.
As you can see for a 1-12 spread the gain is about 6.25% being better for lower spreads (12.38% with 1-4 spread).
Sincerely,
Cac
I do think it's a lot easier to side count Aces in an Ace-neutral strategy than in an Ace-reckoned strategy. Not just because the Ace must be counted in two ways for HiLo. But, with HiOpt or AOII you make the adjustment before betting instead of before playing and Insurance. I think the timing is easier.
> I do think it's a lot easier to side count
> Aces in an Ace-neutral strategy than in an
> Ace-reckoned strategy. Not just because the
> Ace must be counted in two ways for HiLo.
> But, with HiOpt or AOII you make the
> adjustment before betting instead of before
> playing and Insurance. I think the timing is
> easier.
Agree, but you can also use Hi-Lo as an Ace-neutral count and adjust before betting. Of course, we would be talking about an unbalanced count in this case.
> I do think it's a lot easier to side count
> Aces in an Ace-neutral strategy than in an
> Ace-reckoned strategy. Not just because the
> Ace must be counted in two ways for HiLo.
> But, with HiOpt or AOII you make the
> adjustment before betting instead of before
> playing and Insurance. I think the timing is
> easier.
What if you stick with normal hi-lo indices for most plays, and only make the ace adjustment for those plays where you can expect significant gains? Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought that would be easier to use, since you only end up adjusting the primary count occassionally, as opposed to betting adjustment, which you'd have to do almost every round.
-Myoo
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