gorilla player: brief trip report

[gorilla player]

Had another chance to make a somewhat lengthy drive to play BJ. After my past three-four weeks of "shoes from hell" I decided to try the graveyard shift and see if I could find a decent DD game. Found one with good rules, $10 min, only minor problem was 66% penetration. Not bad when I see a lot of 50%, but I have also gotten 75% so maybe this is a happy medium.

Played with one other player who was playing green/black, spreading his bets from a min of 25 to a high of at least 500, although there was no pattern I could discern. Fine by me, kept the attention to himself. I was playing the table min, spreading 1-8. CVCX said that I should expect about $25 an hour. Bought in at the cage for $1000, about 1/2 green, rest a coat-pocket full of reds.

Started pretty good, got to +400 after a good count, and a couple of splits/doubles that worked. A couple of negative shuffles saw me increase this by a hundred. Couple of way positive counts saw me blow that to hell, back to $600 or so, from my starting $1000, down a lot from the $1500 I had at one point. Continued playing, things turned around, and I slowly came back again. Ended up with just under $1300 for about 3 hours of playing. Guy playing with me lost his shirt. He was drunk, played all sorts of "hunches", bet crazily, using up-progressions, down-progressions, wild-ass guesses, and what else I can't begin to guess. But, he was polite and didn't complain when I did things like hit 13 vs 3 or whatever BS deviations I played. Technically I was on 3rd base although I was sitting in the middle of the table and he was on first.

Place was snotty about spreading to more than one spot so I said "hell with that" and just spread 1-8 and let 'er rip. When I asked about a second hand, got a "sure, but you have to continue playing until the shuffle." Could have waited for a high count near the shuffle point, but decided it wasn't worth the possible hassle/attention. I've been told "2x min on both spots" on occasion, at other places I have just played 2 spots and so long as I bet at least the table min on each, nobody complained.

Wish ISO would come up with standards for this stuff.

Anyway, clearly DD is a better game when it can be found with reasonable rules. I did notice that this place was doing 66% on the "shoe next door" to my table so maybe that was the norm, although there were no "slots" to guide the stop card's placement, so probably better pen could be found but the place was pretty dead at 5am.

So finally a bit of "positive variance" (about 4x the CVCX expected win rate per hour for 3 hours) after some gross happenings on a few 6d shoe games recently... Only down-side was with 2 of us playing, this was probably a 60 hand per hour game _max_. Slow shuffling, slow dealing, drunk playing with me sometimes took more time to make a decision than the dealer needed to complete a shuffle... Kept asking us "is that a 16 or 17 I have?" or "is that a 6 or 9 up for the dealer?" (once it was a 5, so he was 3 sheets to the wind by then. )

Had a pit critter watch a lot, but I apparently kept him confused with my betting. However, he was really more interested in the drunk's black chip bets when he would go from $25 to $300-500 from one hand to the next... Only moment of alarm came when the drunk happened to hit a couple of positive count swings with his wild big bets, so that we were both betting bigger than normal at the same time, and agreeing with the count. Caused me a bit of worry, but count dropped negative and he kept tossing big bets out randomly, almost as if he intended on losing his bankroll.

ah well, ended ok. Would have been nicer to end with that +$500 high point, but +300 is certainly OK. Einstein said everything is relative Relative to my big wins, this one sucked, relative to the "shoes from hell" it was great.

[Ouchez]

On the down side you must always figure in expenses, gas, hotel, food etc. to see how you actually made out on the trip. You did say it was a long drive.

Sometimes, even though we win, we lose it back in trip expenses. At that point you must consider what your real goals are, making the money or just fun and competition. When you look at all these facts they can be rather sobering at times. This is why comps are never to be taken lightly.

Regards,
Ouchez.

[Gorilla Player]

> On the down side you must always figure in
> expenses, gas, hotel, food etc. to see how
> you actually made out on the trip. You did
> say it was a long drive.

> Sometimes, even though we win, we lose it
> back in trip expenses. At that point you
> must consider what your real goals are,
> making the money or just fun and
> competition. When you look at all these
> facts they can be rather sobering at times.
> This is why comps are never to be taken
> lightly.

> Regards,
> Ouchez.

Long drive, but not to play BJ. Visited family and made the BJ session a one-night deal when things were slow. Was about 20-30 minutes from where I was staying, so the cost was essentially zero, for this trip at least...

As for comps, I agree. My wife is a slot player and generally gets us free room where we go, playing BJ I generally get us free food regularly although if I am in a "serious mood" I either don't use a player's card or if I do, it isn't mine, if you get my drift...

I tend to get sour on 6d shoes, the variance is high, the profit is slow, etc. 2D is more to my liking, although on occasion it is just not playable. A 2d game with a deck cut off seems stupid...

[Ouchez]

> Long drive, but not to play BJ. Visited
> family and made the BJ session a one-night
> deal when things were slow. Was about 20-30
> minutes from where I was staying, so the
> cost was essentially zero, for this trip at
> least...

> As for comps, I agree. My wife is a slot
> player and generally gets us free room where
> we go, playing BJ I generally get us free
> food regularly although if I am in a
> "serious mood" I either don't use
> a player's card or if I do, it isn't mine,
> if you get my drift...

> I tend to get sour on 6d shoes, the variance
> is high, the profit is slow, etc. 2D is more
> to my liking, although on occasion it is
> just not playable. A 2d game with a deck cut
> off seems stupid...

on a DD lately, due to suspected team play. The cut was moved from 80 to 50% and the PC watched my every move. I must admit to alot of Skillz in this game and many tricks. I stayed planted and thought I would give the PC something to think about. I zoned and while spreading 1 to 40 won more with the shitty cut than I was with the 80% cut. Soon this guy was moved to another part of the casino and things went back to normal. It would have been a mistake for me to get rattled and leave, a sure sign of what I was doing or what I wanted.

I think if you give a card it should be your own correct info. I have seen this come back to haunt players in a very big way. Also you should always be building your comp points, even when you bore down and get very serious....I call it "Zoning".

Strength and Honor,
Ouchez.

[gorilla player]

> on a DD lately, due to suspected team play.

My most bizarre back-off was for this same reason. I was playing at a crowded store, and was doing just fine. Dozens of people were standing at each table, and at some point, a guy walked up behind me and watched for a bit. Then as I increased my bet (I don't remember if this was a $10 or $25 table) fairly significantly, he plunked down a stack of 10 black chips in my betting circle. I looked at the dealer quizically, never having seen this before anywhere, he asked the pit critter who said "that's ok." Within 10 minutes, I got "the tap" and we were both asked to not play any more blackjack. Security guy said we had been recognized as a "team" by "upstairs" even though I had never seen this person before in my life.

> The cut was moved from 80 to 50% and the PC
> watched my every move. I must admit to alot
> of Skillz in this game and many tricks. I
> stayed planted and thought I would give the
> PC something to think about. I zoned and
> while spreading 1 to 40

You are obviously pretty good to get away with that in a DD game. I try for 1-8 and still sometimes attract attention when the count skys and my $25 turns into $200, doubled or split to $400, etc... I had not particularly thought of using a much bigger spread to beat the 50% pen that I have seen several times (not just for me, but in general games particularly at a couple of indian casinos I have visited. If I get backed-off or barred, can I use you as a reference?

> won more with the
> shitty cut than I was with the 80% cut. Soon
> this guy was moved to another part of the
> casino and things went back to normal. It
> would have been a mistake for me to get
> rattled and leave, a sure sign of what I was
> doing or what I wanted.

> I think if you give a card it should be your
> own correct info. I have seen this come back
> to haunt players in a very big way. Also you
> should always be building your comp points,
> even when you bore down and get very
> serious....I call it "Zoning".

I play for comps, just not for myself. Others do this for me. I don't worry about repercussions for this, since I have not seen any law saying that I am required to give my true name to a casino to play their games... If I were to hit a jackpot on a slot, or score a big win at a BJ table in one session which would require FED notification, it might be a bit of a problem, but since I don't play slots, and I can leave before tripping an alarm at the BJ table, it hasn't yet been a problem. Of course, I'm no Kenny Uston either.

> Strength and Honor,
> Ouchez.

[Ouchez]

[stainless steel rat]

I don't know how prevalent this is, but I have discovered that the "player" has the option of saying "no" and that the dealer must insist that the backbettor remove his/her bet.

Is this a generally accepted practice (allowing back-betting) or is it only offered in a few places???

[Parker]

> Is this a generally accepted practice
> (allowing back-betting) or is it only
> offered in a few places???

It seems to be a function of supply and demand. When there were only 3 casinos in the San Diego area (and people would be backed up 3 deep waiting for a seat), back-betting was a common practice. Now that there are 9 casinos (and the 3 original ones have added more tables), it is seen less often.

It is rarely seen in Las Vegas, since it is almost always possible to find a seat at a blackjack table, even on a busy holiday weekend.

The casinos generally are in favor of anything that puts more money on the tables.

So, you will generally see it in areas where there are few casinos and lots of gamblers.

Back betting can be used as a form of wonging. This can be be problematic, as you watch in horror as a player waves off a hit on his soft 17 vs dealer 10, with your $500 back bet hanging in the balance.

[stainless steel rat]

> It seems to be a function of supply and
> demand. When there were only 3 casinos in
> the San Diego area (and people would be
> backed up 3 deep waiting for a seat),
> back-betting was a common practice. Now that
> there are 9 casinos (and the 3 original ones
> have added more tables), it is seen less
> often.

> It is rarely seen in Las Vegas, since it is
> almost always possible to find a seat at a
> blackjack table, even on a busy holiday
> weekend.

> The casinos generally are in favor of
> anything that puts more money on the tables.

> So, you will generally see it in areas where
> there are few casinos and lots of gamblers.

> Back betting can be used as a form of
> wonging. This can be be problematic, as you
> watch in horror as a player waves off a hit
> on his soft 17 vs dealer 10, with your $500
> back bet hanging in the balance.

Seems horrible to me. IE should I walk up and watch for a while, and find a player that appears to play perfect BS for 30 minutes, and then gets that A-6 vs 10 and stands. Of course if you are back-counting, you also run the risk of him/her hitting that 12 vs 3 at a TC of +10 as well.

I might try a _very_ tight grip around the player's neck, letting him know if the decision he is about to make is acceptable or not.

[Don Schlesinger]

> Seems horrible to me. IE should I walk up
> and watch for a while,

Gee, I wonder who this may be!! If you really want to hide, I'd drop the annoying "IE"s once and for all.

Don

[Saboteur]

[stainless steel rat]

glad to provide some amusement.

I'm not _that_ interested in paranoid secrecy. But several had (off-line) suggested using a less easy to track email. Which I am now doing...

Otherwise, back to the game...

[cvgtpc1]

> glad to provide some amusement.

> I'm not _that_ interested in paranoid
> secrecy. But several had (off-line)
> suggested using a less easy to track email.
> Which I am now doing...

> Otherwise, back to the game...

I had you on_the_underlining, didn't even notice the IEs. Good call.