WallStRunoff: Share Your Stories

[WallStRunoff]

Anybody have interesting stories to share? I must say that I enjoy the tales of toil and triumph. Even if they seem unworthy of posting to you I tend find them interesting, and sometimes I learn things from your experiences.

I will introduce myself for starters and explain how I got here.

When I graduated from college (mid-90s) I had only heard 2nd hand that counting cards could reverse the casino's advantage. The concept intrigued me because my family had on occasion called me "rain man" for my ability with numbers. I also had a very competitive nature that made me interested in learning and beating puzzles, games, and mathematics problems. At that point I had played blackjack a couple of times and had learned the basic strategy plays, but I didn't pursue the game further.

I took a cross country trip with a friend soon after my graduation and 2 months in found myself running low on cash and hence, my time to join the mundane world of working for a living was fast approaching. We reached Las Vegas and I thought I'd give the game a try. I conceived of what I now would call a makeshift counting system that I thought might work.

Knowing only that 10s and Aces were advantageous to the player I decided to utilize my childhood love of baseball statistics as the basis of my system. Every ten that I saw would be a "hit" and every card an "at bat". Since 5 of every 13 cards was an 10, I knew that the standard deck had a .385 "batting average". Therefore my rough benchmark became the .400 mark, which I could pretty much deduce without much thought. I began playing this way for a couple of hours in some hole-in-the wall off-the-strip joint, raising my bet everytime my "hitter" the deck was falling down at or below .300. With the deck at or above my benchmark I pushed in $5 or took a break. To my amazement (and luck!!) I turned the $200 or so I had into about $1200, all the while smiling and consuming free beer after free beer in celebration of my exciting discovery. When suddenly a man appeared from nowhere and tapped me aggressively on the shoulder.

I swung around in my chair to find a well dressed man, 50 or 60 years of age standing beside what seemed to be a mammoth 300 police officer. My heart skipped a beat as I noticed his face wore an angry frown. His eyes, glaring at mine, bore down on me like a thousand points as time suddenly stood still. I began rehatching the stories about the old Vegas were mob-made men would take people into the back room and break fingers and noses. All I could think about was getting past these two men where I knew my young legs could easily outrun them. But I never thought of myself as a criminal and I knew I had to supress this fight or flight impulse.

As he began to speak his hand promptly reached down onto the table, sweeping my bet into the slot on the table before I even knew what was happening. He said "young man, capping your bet is illegal". Capping your bet? What the heck does he mean? I thought he would accuse me of counting the cards. Surely I must have been moving my lips as my eyes repeatedly scanned back and forth across the table as I played. They must know I was counting cards. Before I could ponder the situation further he continued with the dramatic delivery of a Hollywood A-list actor delivering his lines, "capping your bet is like....(pause)....cheating". I knew I was in big trouble now. They were accusing me of something I hadn't even done. If they call the cops their going to put me in jail. Worse, if they can just invent stories like that what will keep them from doing one of those mob jobs on me. I definately knew now I did want to stick around. Without further hesitation I pushed my chair and stood up. "I'm not cheating" I said as I sensed the fear in my own voice. What kind of a defense was that, I thought. Thats all I could say as I tried to coolly stroll toward the chip redemption window to claim my prize. It seemed to take 20 minutes for the clerk to cash me out as the two men seemed likely to step and stop the process at any time. I plotted my path to the exit where two more goons seemed to be taking interest in the situation. Signalling over to my friend, I saw he was already staring over at me in disbelief from a craps table. He had also known it was time to get out of this place and began towards me as I turned and hastened my pace toward the door. The older man and his henchmen stayed right on my tail as if they were about to pounce at any moment. As I slipped past the door I waited for my friend and once free we began to walk briskly down the block. I turned around and saw the four casino employees were standing outside the entrance of their casino, each of them locked in on us - but not following! The outside air felt amazingly refreshing as I realized my first counting experience had gone awry but I had survived. My friend and I laughed as I counted my money and we realized we were going to finally see the Grand Canyon.

It took several years for me to enter a casino again. The experience I had had in Las Vegas had left me with a bad taste I was not soon to forget. During the summer of last year I failed in attempting to establish my own investment business and was burning up cash as I was looking for a job. The stock market, which was my lifeblood, had been sputtering for 2 years - and the building I used to work in had fallen to the ground, leaving scars so deep I still couldn't rid myself of the everyday memories of faces, elevators, stairs, my desk, my view from the window, and the courtyard that became a fiery grave for thousands of the people I bumped shoulders with and spoke to every day. It all haunted me, every day of my life, seemingly every hour.

I needed money once again. I was 8 years older and the casino did not seem so intimidating anymore. Board and searching the internet I came upon a web site that was chock full of all the mathematical jargon I was accustomed to as a Wall St. quant analyst. I was amazed that there existed an entire internet subculture of cardcounters, some making a decent living at the trade. I order a book on the topic and soon I was using a software tool to hone my skills. I hadn't imagined the level of sophistication and refinement this craft had achieved.

Within days I was flying down the Garden State parkway to Atlantic City. When I walked into the casino my heart pounded with adrenaline as I wondered how my new system would perform. I had $5000 in my bank account and had just doled out a large some for an apartment and needed money to pay my maintenance. I knew I couldn't play for long if I caught a bad streak. I knew the numbers well and I knew this was not the solution to my problems - I needed to get back to work.

I did laps around the casino searching for a deep shoe. None of them seemed adequate. Finally a seat opened up at a +3 count and I snapped it up quickly. I laid down $15 and the cards fell sweetly. Here we go, I'm back. I remembered how much fun the game was that night back in Vegas and began to reabsorb the thrill of playing.

Up $300 the count begain to rise so high I new this what it was all about. "Send it in" I reminded myself as the running count reached the 30s by midshoe! "send it in". Double, Split, dealer hits twenty. I lose. Count moves higher. Double, Stand, dealer 5 for 21. Soon I'm cashing in for another $200.

The night progresses and my self esteem plummets with my shrinking bankroll. What kind of fool am I? Getting so excited to come down here and gamble when I don't have an income. The beating is ceaseless, every time I push in the chips, it seems the dealer is making his hand. I realize I've blown nearly $1000 and I know its time to go home. My head is pounding from 10 hours of Blackjack and coffee. The drive home is going to be a long hard one.

Back home I get an earful from my family. I'm not married but in my enthusiastic preparation for my casino trip, I had told my mother and brother what I was up to. My spirits were low but I knew the numbers didn't lie and I had simulated millions of hands under countless scenarios to prove it. I had gotten a bad sampling of cards.

Two days later and the phone rings. Its my old boss and he's at another firm and wants me to join him. Blackjack is once again on the backburner.

September 2004. I've saved plenty of money and my retirement accounts are up again as the stock market, and my income, have recovered. Now I know I have the piece of the puzzle of was missing last year: bankroll. I begin honing my skills for a weekend trip. This time I'm ready.....

ps: I own it to Norm to mention the sims and practice were done on Casino Verite (its a must). I only wish I read Don's book right out of college - I'd have 9 years of profits by now.

[Ouchez]

[Dali-Lama]

Wall ST.
Enjoyed your story...It reminded me alot of myself.My initiation into this game was [and still is ] a rocky road. After college I couldn't imagine a 9 to 5 job.I opened my own bussiness. Was succesful for over 15 yaers...and then lost everything after 9\11. It'll probably be a few more years for me to recuperate..but i will. Anyway best wishes...I'd love to elaborate but i'm a horrifice typist...cheers.

[Sun Runner]

[gorilla player]

Good read.

Here are two odd stories from my past earlier this year.

#1 was really odd. Was on a business trip with a night stayover and it turns out there were casinos close by (not Vegas nor MS coast). Friend with me said "let's go relieve them of a few bucks while we have time." We sat down at a $25 2D table and were playing along doing pretty well, with no heat or anything. Suddenly some well-dressed dude walks up behind me and watches for a hand or two and then drops a stack of 12 $100 chips down right beside my bet. I've been playing about 6 years, counting for almost 4 years, and had _never_ had this happen before. I didn't say anything but the dealer said something to the pit boss and he walked over, looked and said "that's ok." At this particular point, the count had just jumped from 0 to +4, and my bet was a single black if I recall. The count went up, I bet a black again, and the guy behind me bet his big stack of black as well. We won again. Before we got any further, there was a "sir, please step away from the table so we can talk." that I am sure many counters have heard. The gist of it was they accused us of being a team, with the guy behind me being the big player (the casino was absolutely stuffed, finding empty seats was a lengthy process, and apparently they allowed these "side bets" or whatever they are called as a way to get more people's action into the game. I'd never seen this guy in my life, but we both were given the "no more blackjack" speech. I found my friend and we went elsewhere.

Seemed very odd.

Second story comes from Vegas, at a property not to be named, that is noted for barring anyone that even thinks about winning. I sat down at a 2d game, 5 players, first 12 cards were all 10's, every bet was pushed. Count in the toilet. I bet the min (this was only a $10 table) and for the next several shuffles, this kind of nonsense repeated, so I basically flat-betted for the short playing session as the TC never went over +1 and generally hovered at negative values. Only strange thing was that I was winning about 6 of every 8 hands it seemed, and playing $10, I ended up winning a respectable amount of money until the "sir, please step away from the table." I did and got the "please follow me...". I said "no". This security guy said "I am authorized to force you to follow me if I need to." By now I was a bit pissed so I said "you can try..." He said "what do you mean by that?" I said "I said you can try to force me, at your own risk." He gave me the "put your hands behind your back" routine and I replied "please show me some identification that proves you are in law enforcement, and not just a police-wannabe security person." (I can be uncooperative as well. )

As he stepped toward me I gave one simple warning "let me be clear, when you put your hand on me, all constraints on my actions are eliminated." He said "what does that mean?" I said "in simple terms, your next meal will be through a plastic tube." (this is all not exact quotes, this happened early this year, but the gist is accurate) He looked me in the eye for about 30 seconds, and apparently the lack of fear or alarm triggered some basic sense of self-preservation. He then pulled out some sort of laminated card, and read me the classic trespass warning, and told me to leave and not come back, which I did.

I found it funny that (a) I was purely playing BS (I did modify it a bit for negative count, such as hitting a 12 vs dealer 4, etc) (b) was also flat-betting the table min as the count never reached a decent number. So they barred me simply because I won about $300 bucks or so, at $10 bucks a pop, over a period of less than an hour.

Since I have heard lots of other counters report similar treatment at the same place.

I should add that I am about 5-10, weigh about 190, and used to be an active karate fanatic until about 10 years ago when my knee doc said "knock it off or you are heading for a knee replacement." I had no fear of this overweight idiot, but really did not want to get into a fight in the middle of Vegas where things can turn sour with the well-known LVPD's love for the casino security folks. I probably over-reacted a bit, but my wife was embarassed and worried at the same time, and I thought "enough is enough of this crap." I can tell you the "police-wannabe" comment certainly raised his blood-pressure as his face got pretty red.

I have been barred exactly once. Above. I have been "backed-off" several times. That is just going to happen if you play enough. But back-offs don't end your play. A trespass warning ends it permanently, unless you are invited back. I've been invited back to that place due to my wife using my player's card in the slots (I don't use it on the BJ tables _ever_.) So I legally could return, but I have no interest in doing so. It's a lousy place. My wife and I were just doing a "hit-and-run" as she wanted to tell her friends that she played the slots at every casino within 1/2 mile of the strip on either side...

all of my "backoffs" have been pleasant except for the first one above. Many even offer a comp'd meal during the backoff.

Hope all of that wasn't too choppy. Lots going on around me as I try to type this.

[WallStRunoff]

Interesting stuff, I wonder if the first incident might have been related to the second. Or maybe the casinos are part of the same hotel conglomerate.

I'd love to know which casino that is since I'm heading out that way next weekend and again for a week in December. But I understand we can't discuss these things publicly.

Anyhow, thanks for the tales!

[WallStRunoff]

Thanks. and sorry for the numerous typos, I'm kind of spastic when I type.

[gorilla player]

> Interesting stuff, I wonder if the first
> incident might have been related to the
> second. Or maybe the casinos are part of the
> same hotel conglomerate.

No. One in Vegas. One on the mid-east side of the US.

> I'd love to know which casino that is since
> I'm heading out that way next weekend and
> again for a week in December. But I
> understand we can't discuss these things
> publicly.

You can easily figure out which Vegas casino I was talking about. There is one particular store there that you can find lots of similar stories about. Unfortunately I had not discovered this (and other BJ web sites) prior to my visit out there, and wasn't aware of the problem. First letter of first name is "B". The back-off was at a casino that General Custer might have visited.

> Anyhow, thanks for the tales!

[WallStRunoff]

THANKS *NM*