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Thread: Early Surrender So Valuable ??? How to Play to get that value ??

  1. #1
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    Early Surrender So Valuable ??? How to Play to get that value ??

    Early Surrender – This less and less available rule allows surrender of a
    hand before the dealer checks for Blackjack. If you can find a casino
    that allows it, this is one of the most valuable options in the game. Advantage
    is about .6-.7. It can be found in Africa, some places in Eastern Europe, for a
    time in Moscow, a couple of casinos in Vancouver and a handful of casinos in
    Western Europe. In rare cases, you will find a dealer that allows this because
    she does not understand the late surrender rule. ("Modern Blackjack" P.30)

    I found (only) a casino offering Early Surrender on any dealer up card (Not against Ace).
    When dealer has Ace up, he check hole card. If it is not BJ, then still surrender is available. (Do we call this 'Late Surrender ?)

    Common rule in this city is; 6D H17 DAS RSA ENHC (OBO) SPL3 ES (NS against Ace).
    Because dealer don't draw hole card, players can't surender.
    MGP's BJCA show net EV of these rules as -0.307%.

    I didn't realize the value of "Early Surrender" which offered by that (only) casino.
    It is NOT ES10, surrender any up cards., even against Ace after peek.
    MGP's BJCA show net EV as +0.165 %. (I can't believe this !!!)

    How can I reap this golden opportunity ? So far, I avoided this casino, beause penetration is not great (not bad, 4.5/6).
    Difference with other casinos is options to surrender more (against Ace). Is it really so valuable to turn negative EV to positive ?

    Copy from other thread; Biggest benefit is massive reduction in flux plus the offset of the house edge enabling you to bet significantly bigger at each true count...basically you move up your entire bet ramp by one notch and that has a huge impact on your win-rate. (BigPlayer)

    Please give me any advice to vary playing.

  2. #2
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    Thanks, Tthree,
    Let me make this clear to me.
    All casinos in this city have same rules controlled by the government. They offer surrender any upcard. Some players surrender 16v7, 12vT.
    The (only 1) casino I stated in the original post take hole card, but still surrender available against any upcards but Ace.
    When dealer get Ace, check Blackjack, if not, still surrender available.
    So, I might call this Early Surrender (which is less and less available as stated in Modern Blackjack) and Late Surrender together.
    MGP's BJCA do not allow to specify both options together.
    My question is; Is this not Early Surrender ? If not, what is this ?
    When I specify in BJCA as ES10-NSvA, results is -0.307%.
    When I specify as ES, results is +0.165%.
    My second question is; how it gives so big differences turn net negative EV to positive.
    Chances to do more surrender is against dealer Ace only with my bad cards such as 14, 15, 16 in high counts.
    (Sorry for nagging, if you think so. But, I want to rent an apartment near by this casino to play more hours.)

  3. #3
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    The value of (true) Early Surrender is so very high simply because your Basic Strategy
    (in a H17 game) is to SURRENDER almost everything against the Ace except for 11, 18, 19, 20.
    Note: 15 vs. 9 is not Basic Strategy Surrenders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    You say ENHC but then talk about surrendering after dealer peeking on the ace. I never played ENHC so I don't know the procedure but I assumed there is no hole card to peek at.
    9 of 10 casinos are ENHC, the last one take hole card. Other rules are same.
    BTW what is pure, true Early Surrender compare to ES10 ?
    Is there any way to set up this in CVCX ? CVCX has option of just Surrender.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    You can surrender anything after the dealer checks.
    Are you sure about this?

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    As far as I know, ES10 exists only in ENHC games, so if the dealer has an ace as the upcard I guess that it's not possible to surrender your hand because you have to wait till the dealer plays its hand.

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    When Crown offered Surrender with ENHC, they placed a small token on top of your wager, If the dealer ends up with BJ, the bet is taken, if not, half the bet is taken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AussiePlayer View Post
    When Crown offered Surrender with ENHC, they placed a small token on top of your wager, If the dealer ends up with BJ, the bet is taken, if not, half the bet is taken.
    That is Late Surrender, but I was asking if you can mix ES and LS as Tthree says.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    The value of (true) Early Surrender is so very high simply because your Basic Strategy
    (in a H17 game) is to SURRENDER almost everything against the Ace except for 11, 18, 19, 20.
    Note: 15 vs. 9 is not Basic Strategy Surrenders.
    Stanford Wong, Professional Blackjack, p. 91, Table 32 "Early Surrender" says
    to also not early surrender 8,9,10 versus dealer ace, doesn't it?

    Hard 4 versus Ace is at a borderline for H17 (index number is 0).
    I am not sure whether Basic Strategy says to surrender or not in this case.
    For S17, the index number is 2, so Basic Strategy would be to not surrender.
    Apart from this "player has a total of Hard 4" case, a simple rule of thumb could be

    "Against dealer ace, early surrender every hard hand except 8-11 and 18-21".

    Which should be easy to remember because these are all strong hands
    (candidates for doubling down or standing under all circumstances)
    and if you draw a Ten on 8-11, you get 18-21).

    This formula not only holds for H17 but also for S17.
    Last edited by PinkChip; 05-21-2012 at 12:37 PM.

  10. #10


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    Yes you can mix them. You play with indices for an ES game, but then use LS indices against an ace. However I think that against a lot of dealers they would actually let you surrender against an ace before they check for blackjack. This is because people rarely surrender and most of the dealers probably don't know exactly how it works. I know this was the case last time I was playing there. Either way, who cares what its called...just go play it lol.

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