MJ: CVCX vs. BJRM 2002

[MJ]

I was wondering which of the above 2 programs is better as far as functionality and power. I currently use the KO Preferred counting system.
What I am basically looking to do is calculate ROR, optimal bets at certain running counts, figure out indices that are NOT included in KO Blackjack, NO, SCORE, what type of bankroll I need to earn X dollars/hr, expectancy, standard deviation, etc.

I believe both of the programs are the same price. What are the advantages and disadvantages of the two programs? Most importantly, which one is more user friendly? Thanks to anybody who can help me out on this one!!

-MJ

[Dancer]

> I was wondering which of the above 2
> programs is better as far as functionality
> and power.

I use both, and both are great.

> I currently use the KO Preferred
> counting system.
> What I am basically looking to do is
> calculate ROR, optimal bets at certain
> running counts,

Both do this.

> figure out indices that are
> NOT included in KO Blackjack,

Neither do this. You'll need CVData or SBA.

> NO, SCORE,
> what type of bankroll I need to earn X
> dollars/hr, expectancy, standard deviation,
> etc.

Both do this.

> I believe both of the programs are the same
> price. What are the advantages and
> disadvantages of the two programs? Most
> importantly, which one is more user
> friendly? Thanks to anybody who can help me
> out on this one!!

Both are an incredible bargain. I just wish they had been available 20 years ago.

I actually prefer the BJRM user interface, but it's no match for CVCX functionality-wise. For BJRM to be truely useful, you need to purchase SBA. CVCX, on the other hand, has a high-speed simulator built in. Because of this, it can supply far, far more detailed data on the game you're playing at various penetration levels.

Neither will produce the massive amount of data supplied by CVData (SBA doesn't either), but if you can only buy one, I'd go with CVCX over BJRM.

Another big selling point: Norm's customer service and responsiveness to the BJ community are unmatched.

[MJ]

Dancer thanks a lot for the response. After you purchased CVCX how long did it take you to figure out how to use it and become comfortable with its features? Also why do you own BOTH CVCX and BJRM? My understanding is that BJRM comes preloaded with a great, great deal of SIMS so that SBA isn't really required unless your a hardcore SIM guy anyway.

One last question, I notice on www.bjstats.com Norm provides access to several calculators. Is this information all a counter needs in the first place? Thanks for the help!!

-MJ

> I use both, and both are great.

> Both do this.

> Neither do this. You'll need CVData or SBA.

> Both do this.

> Both are an incredible bargain. I just wish
> they had been available 20 years ago.

> I actually prefer the BJRM user interface,
> but it's no match for CVCX
> functionality-wise. For BJRM to be truely
> useful, you need to purchase SBA. CVCX, on
> the other hand, has a high-speed simulator
> built in. Because of this, it can supply
> far, far more detailed data on the game
> you're playing at various penetration
> levels.

> Neither will produce the massive amount of
> data supplied by CVData (SBA doesn't
> either), but if you can only buy one, I'd go
> with CVCX over BJRM.

> Another big selling point: Norm's customer
> service and responsiveness to the BJ
> community are unmatched.

[Dancer]

> Dancer thanks a lot for the response. After
> you purchased CVCX how long did it take you
> to figure out how to use it and become
> comfortable with its features?

It's been several years ago, but I don't think it took me over an afternoon or so to figure out the basics. I suppose I could have read the manual, but - nah...

> Also why do
> you own BOTH CVCX and BJRM?

Several reasons. First and foremost, the software experts that provide us with these invaluable tools deserve our support (that goes for authors, too). They certainly don't spend countless hours writing and testing these programs for the money. There just aren't enough customers out there.

But more to the point, a $100 software package that increases my knowledge of the game and makes me a better player is dirt cheap. When I first started playing, I was a $2 player. Now that $100 price tag is a fraction of one session's EV.

> My understanding
> is that BJRM comes preloaded with a great,
> great deal of SIMS so that SBA isn't really
> required unless your a hardcore SIM guy
> anyway.

I bought BJRM 2002 when it first came out. Maybe there are more sims included now, but it didn't have the ones I needed at the time. Actually, I already owned SBA and didn't care for the spreadsheet that came with it, so BJRM was a huge step forward.

I bought CVData later and loved it. From there, I've picked up all of Norm's stuff.

> One last question, I notice on
> www.bjstats.com Norm provides access to
> several calculators. Is this information all
> a counter needs in the first place? Thanks
> for the help!!

Yes and no. The various free calculators available on the net are certainly useful, but IMO they lack the 2 most important elements of all - the calculation of your bet size and ramp.

If you're playing a 12:1 spread in a 6D game with DAS S17 LS 5:6 pen and a conservative 1/2 kelly, how much should you bet at a TC of +3 if your BR is X?

I may be wrong, but I've never seen a free calculator that provides that level of detail. If you're a red chip player, it probably doesn't matter all that much. But when you start pulling out the heavy artillery, you want every edge you can get.