Anyone hear about that new system from Golden Touch Blackjack called "Speed Count"? Seems to be some super-simplified counting system that can get you a small edge in some games. Maybe it's similar to the Ace/10 count from Blackjack Bluebook - but you'll have to take the $900 seminar to find out, because they're not giving out the system for free. Who knows something about this?
www.goldentouchblackjack.com
I had e-mailed the Wizard about that a while ago and I quote "I think Golden Touch BJ is okay. It is a simplified counting strategy. I'm still skeptical of the dice control thing." While I am very pleased with the money I spent on the dice control class (yeah, I know, you all can say what you want!) I can't imagine paying that same price for a simple counting strategy when for that you can get so many book sand software programs and still have a decent bankroll to play with.
> Anyone hear about that new system from
> Golden Touch Blackjack called "Speed
> Count"? Seems to be some
> super-simplified counting system that can
> get you a small edge in some games. Maybe
> it's similar to the Ace/10 count from
> Blackjack Bluebook - but you'll have to take
> the $900 seminar to find out, because
> they're not giving out the system for free.
> Who knows something about this?
> www.goldentouchblackjack.com
> Anyone hear about that new system from
> Golden Touch Blackjack called "Speed
> Count"? Seems to be some
> super-simplified counting system that can
> get you a small edge in some games. Maybe
> it's similar to the Ace/10 count from
> Blackjack Bluebook - but you'll have to take
> the $900 seminar to find out, because
> they're not giving out the system for free.
> Who knows something about this?
> www.goldentouchblackjack.com
There is no short cuts to winning at BJ. It will take alot of practice and study and money to beat the game.
Scob and his friends are making a fortune by cashing in on the gambling craze by taking advantage of the wanna be Advantage players, be it craps, BJ, slots, Roulette, etc.
Buy some good BJ books from this site and also get Norms software, CV, and you will be on the road to truly beating the game of BJ. Of course then you must find a playable game. There is alot to this endeavor.
Best to you.
Ouchez.
There have been a couple of threads regarding this. Use the search function at the top of the page to find them. You might also try a search of the Beginner page.
We ("we" meaning Don and the Masters) offered to do an independent analysis of the system, but were unable to reach agreement on the details of how it would be handled.
Personally, I feel that anyone who would pay $800 to learn a simple counting system that it's promoters admit has less power than Hi-lo (with I-18 indices) deserves whatever happens to them.
Card counting is not rocket science. Someone wanting to learn a simple counting system should buy Fred Renzey's Blackjack Bluebook or Knockout Blackjack, and put $780 in their bankroll.
This seminar is an absolute waste of money. It is probably either one of two things:
1. A customized round-by-round count with Counter Basic Strategy.
2. A Renzey-esque A/10 count with Counter Basic Strategy.
In either case, you'll be betting into negative situations far too often, and you'll be rewarded with much larger swings for your efforts (or lack thereof). Further, if it's #1, then you still have some mental gymnastics related to the number of rounds already dealt and/or the number of cards remaining. And if it's #2, then I have $22 worth of products that accomplish the same thing for you with a few hours of practice.
If you're going spend that kind of money, you're better off at least learning some real skills by either signing up for the MIT seminars with a fake name and wearing a disguise, or, buying $300 worth of products to learn shuffle tracking. You can also get personal, secure consultations from RGE.
IMO, the only time a blackjack seminar is that valuable ($500+) is for certain key visual skills related to shuffle tracking. If the seminar is just straight counting, you're wasting your money. In the case of Golden Touch Blackjack (like many products), the high price point is to account for their high marketing costs for all of the fancy newspaper ads, NOT the value of the information contained therein.
The fact they can get away with such fallacious marketing is a shame. The more I read it, the more the "7 Elements of GTBS" sounds like the Noble Eightfold Path of the Buddha. It's like total spiritual enlightenment, only FASTER!
Good Cards,
V
I took the course and it is nothing like what Parker and the others say it is. While it is called a count system, it is based on something that is very different than the hi-lo. Trillions of computer sims were done. The "speed count" is extremnely simple to use and gives you about 70 percent of the power of hi-lo in 6-deck games and it gives 96 percent of hi-lo in 2-deck games. The "count" is much easier than anything published in the various books people are recommending.
Paying $895 was not a rip off because in two days I learned it and have now played it in the casinos with no heat at all. My bets range from $25 to $300. There is a built in camouflage that this count creates which is discussed in the class.
Again, it is no rip-off.
> The "speed count" is extremely
> simple to use and gives you about 70 percent
> of the power of hi-lo in 6-deck games and it
> gives 96 percent of hi-lo in 2-deck games.
For many reasons, I have stayed out of this discussion, but I must interject here. Because you repeat to us the "company line" that you heard in class does not make it true. You do not KNOW that the above is true; you were TOLD that it is true, and it unequivocally isn't.
You trust what you were told, but there is not a snowball's chance in hell that what you learned earns at a rate of 96% of hi-lo, in a 2-deck game.
Please don't write back and ask me if I'm saying that the seminar leaders are lying. I'm saying that they are "mistaken." Hi-lo is intended to be played with index numbers. Comparing their count to an emascualted hi-lo, devoid of indices, is like discussing the accuracy of a calculator from which you have removed the batteries: It doesn't function as it was intended to.
Don
Why would you believe an ad selling a gambling system?
Trillions of computer sims were done.
Zero sims were done by someone not connected to the group selling the 'system.' I offered to run sims several times. No strings, no fee, no conditions. I was told NO. I was not allowed to see the system.
The "speed count" is extremnely simple to use and gives you about 70 percent of the power of hi-lo in 6-deck games and it gives 96 percent of hi-lo in 2-deck games.
According to whom? 96% of HiLo is an absurdity. If someone told you that you have been conned. The sims were run by the creator. His software is not capable of calculating SCOREs or of calculating optimal betting. His comparisons had standard deviations and EVs that indicated the betting was not a fair comparison. Why would you trust the developer of a system to tell you how the system fares in this business? Particularly when he refuses outside verification of his results.
By the way, I see your e-mail is [email protected]. Are you connected to Golden Touch Craps or a believer in Craps systems?
Just curious,
norm
I seriously doubt that. You might mean that sims were run to "play" trillions of hands. That's not the same thing.
Either way, I'm not buying it.
For $895 I'd want a system that was very, very thoroughly reviewed by recognized blackjack authorities.
BTW, there's no way "Trillions of computer sims were done." If somebody did a hundred sims a day, it'd take 'em some 27 million years to get up to ONE trillion. I hope you meant trillions of hands.
I can imagine advantage play secrets that might be worth $895, but a watered down count system isn't one of them.
ETF
> I took the course and it is nothing like
> what Parker and the others say it is. While
> it is called a count system, it is based on
> something that is very different than the
> hi-lo. Trillions of computer sims were done.
> The "speed count" is extremnely
> simple to use and gives you about 70 percent
> of the power of hi-lo in 6-deck games and it
> gives 96 percent of hi-lo in 2-deck games.
> The "count" is much easier than
> anything published in the various books
> people are recommending.
> Paying $895 was not a rip off because in two
> days I learned it and have now played it in
> the casinos with no heat at all. My bets
> range from $25 to $300. There is a built in
> camouflage that this count creates which is
> discussed in the class.
> Again, it is no rip-off.
> Trillions of computer sims were done.
Here's a quote from the website (http://www.goldentouchcraps.com/gtb_disc.asp)
"Our revolutionary new method is so different, that it can't be modeled in any available software simulators."
So, in other words, there were NO SIMULATIONS DONE! Gee, isn't that John Patrick's sales pitch?
> Again, it is no rip-off.
Selling a cut-rate card counting system (which may not even be effective) for $800 is DEFINATELY a rip-off. You can learn any of the real systems for free. You got scammed dude.
-Sonny-
I took the course and it was great. "The Wizard of Odds" did run his OWN computer simulations and came up with the same statistics that the developers did! Don and Norm, your posts sound to me like sour grapes! Simple question, if a respected authority like The Wizard ran his simulations and came up with his own stats, why should the developers have you run it as well Norm? How many authorities or ?masters? Norm do they need?
When someone comes up with something new it gets tested by independent companies, like GTB did, when they gave it to The Wizard of Odds. Then the company tries to sell the product to the people. I looked at The Wizard's evaluation and bought the Speed Count, and I am glad I did. Most companies don't go out and ask every Tom, Dick, and Harry to look at their product for blessings. They chose someone to grade the product and then they run with it.
It seems to me that for some reason Don and Norm feel like they need to give their blessings on Speed Count. Well as far as I am concerned, The Wizard?s blessing were good enough for me!
I was never a counter and started to search the web to find sites where I could learn easily. I came across this site and have been reading it kind of regularly. I knew of these guys from other websites so I took the course. It was presented in a very professional manner with great instruction and after two days I have an edge that I didn't have before.
I really thought that this was a pretty good site with some good information, but to read the authorities on this site act so childish with a tang of jealousy and conceit in their writing I am beginning to wonder.
And BTW, the computer simulations were done and are shown in class. I will say it again, The Wizard RAN SIMULATIONS!
> There have been a couple of threads
> regarding this. Use the search function at
> the top of the page to find them. You might
> also try a search of the Beginner page.
> We ("we" meaning Don and the
> Masters) offered to do an independent
> analysis of the system, but were unable to
> reach agreement on the details of how it
> would be handled.
> Personally, I feel that anyone who would pay
> $800 to learn a simple counting system that
> it's promoters admit has less power than
> Hi-lo (with I-18 indices) deserves whatever
> happens to them.
> Card counting is not rocket science. Someone
> wanting to learn a simple counting system
> should buy Fred Renzey's Blackjack Bluebook
> or Knockout Blackjack, and put $780 in
> their bankroll.
> I took the course and it was great.
> "The Wizard of Odds" did run his
> OWN computer simulations and came up with
> the same statistics that the developers did!
> Don and Norm, your posts sound to me like
> sour grapes! Simple question, if a respected
> authority like The Wizard ran his
> simulations and came up with his own stats,
> why should the developers have you run it as
> well Norm? How many authorities or ?masters?
> Norm do they need?
> When someone comes up with something new it
> gets tested by independent companies, like
> GTB did, when they gave it to The Wizard of
> Odds. Then the company tries to sell the
> product to the people. I looked at The
> Wizard's evaluation and bought the Speed
> Count, and I am glad I did. Most companies
> don't go out and ask every Tom, Dick, and
> Harry to look at their product for
> blessings. They chose someone to grade the
> product and then they run with it.
> It seems to me that for some reason Don and
> Norm feel like they need to give their
> blessings on Speed Count. Well as far as I
> am concerned, The Wizard?s blessing were
> good enough for me!
> I was never a counter and started to search
> the web to find sites where I could learn
> easily. I came across this site and have
> been reading it kind of regularly. I knew of
> these guys from other websites so I took the
> course. It was presented in a very
> professional manner with great instruction
> and after two days I have an edge that I
> didn't have before.
> I really thought that this was a pretty good
> site with some good information, but to read
> the authorities on this site act so childish
> with a tang of jealousy and conceit in their
> writing I am beginning to wonder.
> And BTW, the computer simulations were done
> and are shown in class. I will say it again,
> The Wizard RAN SIMULATIONS!
This is most interesting. On the GTB website itself, Michael Shackleford (The WizardofOdds) is directly quoted as saying, "Although I have not personally verified the claims of Speed Count I have looked at simulation results provided to me by Dan Pronovost and believe they are trustworthy" (emphasis added). Yet you emphatically state that they told you that he ran simulations himself.
I wonder what else they told you that isn't true?
I don't doubt that the course was conducted in a professional manner, and was probably pleasant to attend. It sounds as if they spend as much time selling the participants on the system as they do teaching it. "Brainwashing" is probably too strong a term.
Which is, I suppose, to be expected. They need "testimonials" such as the ones above to keep a steady flow of suck-, er, I mean, students, coming.
Please check back with us after you have been using the system for a couple of years, and let us know if you still think the course was such a wise investment.
BTW, I learned most of KO while on a flight from San Diego to Las Vegas, and used it that weekend. The book cost me $17.95. And I'm certainly no rocket scientist.
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