I would like to know what some of our member's opinion.Some of us starts as red-chipper.To build up my bankroll I would really like o use aggressive spread.Let me assume something around 1-30,40 spread for 6d and 1-10,15 for dd .Does this bring alot of heat later on in my cc quest???Would one be label a cc because they are this aggressive which bring problems later on when one goes on to a bit higher stake like green to light black???
One of the biggest concerns facing a red chipper is that by the time you've built your bankroll up to a high enough level to return a decent profit you will be too well known to get any play in at higher levels. Only you can truly know how how your play is tolerated at specific stores. Don't just think in terms of bet spread though, session length and the frequency of your play can be just as important. The best option is short sessions with as bigger spread as you can get away with and spread your play around as many stores as you can, although this can be difficult in areas with fewer casinos, especially if your EV as a red chipper has to cover travel costs.
Having said that, any store that backs off red chippers is kidding themselves and clearly doesn't understand the mechanics of card counting.
What you say is true. Its just that the store is not a single 'collective mind' but diverse range of individuals with their own interests within their roles.Originally Posted by AussiePlayer
You could encounter a PB who have recently been 'briefed' on AP techniques and is eager to back-off someone because he's competing for a promotion.
Or you could encounter one who just got his pink slip, and couldn't care less.
You could run into a competent surveillance man with a mean streak because hes going through a nasty divorce.
Or you could encounter one who discovers eastern religion and wants to gather some positive karma.
All factors beyond our control, yet could have profound effects on how our play is received.
If you’re going to build your bank roll playing red, it will usually be a long, hard process for the following reasons.
1. Green has better games.
2. Spreading 1-30, 40 will get you tapped.
3. You can play short sessions, but short red takes time.
4. Tables are more crowded.
5. Ploppies will drive you nuts unless you have a good mental plan.
6. The Pits at those tables are often looking to move up as are some dealers, depending on the store.
7. If you are playing local where there are 2-3 stores to choose from, the above is magnified. Longevity at your local store will mean smaller wins.
8. In Vegas red play at 2 deck games with a large spread is a trap and often fatal.
I think you should start the shoe with 2 reds, drop to one in a negative count and double it during a positive run. Wonging out and ratholing are essential and your cover act should be up for an Oscar. All of this will prepare you for the next step to green and modest black. Not that the above doesn’t apply for green, but honing your skills will probably be as important as building the bank roll that may be built faster outside the playing arena. Then you will be better prepared to move to green anyway.
The local Indian Casinos I have visited crush the red player with rules and pen. Some have gone to all CSM for red play making it impossible. The others have terrible pen and are constantly full with bad players, smokers and rude ploppies. You better be thick skinned. In Vegas there are many more places to play red with a decent chance.
Your biggest concern playing red chips is that you might still be playing red chips in a year and expenses will eat up your bankroll. Blast away as hard as you can and try to graduate your bankroll to a higher level as quickly as possible with big edges and as many special promotions as you can find. Cross the bridge of being backed off when you get to it....but generally speaking if they let you play, even as a red chipper, they have not put 2+2 together with regards to your skills. Obviously the bigger you bet the more you have to travel but as a red chipper generally speaking heat and backoffs will not be an issue for you. In the meantime don't be afraid to burnout most or all of the casinos in your home area while building up your bankroll. When you begin to travel you won't want to play much when you're at home anyway. As a red chipper you should also probably not play rated...you're not gonna earn much in the way of comps and you should protect your identity for when you need it for a more valuable play down the road that requires giving ID (Like a special promotion or for machine plays). If you do play rated be sure to rathole a few hundred in red chips or green chips per session so that your cumulative win in the casino system is always in their favor. It will buy you time, if they start to suspect you're counting they will often just glance at your win/loss and if it's in their favor (you're a loser) they just immediately write you off.
One final point, when you begin to increase your betting your first move should not be to increase your bottom bet, but instead increase the amount you bet at each true count. Eventually your BR will, of its own natural growth, enable you to increase from playing $5 or $10 tables to $25 tables and you can then make the jump, but don't feel you have to jump to a green chip table if you want to bet bigger at each true count. Your bottom bet should always be the least amount of money you can get away with and for me that's always table minimum regardless of how big I might bet at +5.
Last edited by bigplayer; 05-12-2012 at 10:39 AM.
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