Aaron: UK counters !

[Aaron]

Hello guys, In the UK the age requirement for entering a casino is only 18 and have therefore been playing in casinos for a while counting using HI-Lo for quite a while now. However I am still quite young (20) and have yet to find another counter over here and was wondering whether there are any out there that post on this forum. It would be great to find another counter in the UK and talk about british casinos and counting.

Plus I was wondering whether any of you guys from the US have played much in the UK and what you think about counting over here or in Europe in general. The rules are pretty much the same all over (at least in the casinos I have played in) this is because the bulk of the casinos are franchises.

6D with a 75 percent penetration is the norm over here, with multiple ace splits DD on 9,10,11 and no splits on 5s ,6s or 10s. All of the casinos over here draw till 17. They also offer 4D games with the same rules but for high rollers only (high table limit).

[Parker]

> 6D with a 75 percent penetration is the norm
> over here, with multiple ace splits DD on
> 9,10,11 and no splits on 5s ,6s or 10s. All
> of the casinos over here draw till 17. They
> also offer 4D games with the same rules but
> for high rollers only (high table limit).

You probably don't see many counters because that game is, for lack of a better term, awful.

BTW, discussion of casinos and conditions outside the USA really belong on the "International Scene" page. Thank you for your cooperation.

[Don Schlesinger]

> 6D with a 75 percent penetration is the norm
> over here, with multiple ace splits DD on
> 9,10,11 and no splits on 5s ,6s or 10s.

You meant to write: 4s, 5s, or 10s.

Don

[chancer]

I'm a UK counter.

UK rules are indeed awful, however the casinos do tolerate large spreads with no heat. Also riders get to choose whether to split, double or take insurance, depending on what the primary player does of course..

> You probably don't see many counters because
> that game is, for lack of a better term,
> awful.

> BTW, discussion of casinos and conditions
> outside the USA really belong on the
> "International Scene" page. Thank
> you for your cooperation.

[Aaron]

Are riders the people who place bets on the side of other player's hands? I have done this a little, usually on a friend's hand when the table is full. If you were you playing with a partner while backcounting would it be better to place a high stake on his hand rather than occupying another spot? As you would be able to leave easily not taking a seat and it would also mean there are less cards on the table.

[Dog Hand]

Aaron,

A very interesting discussion of Rider Strategy is presented in Ian Andersen's Burning the Tables in Las Vegas. He discloses methods of exploiting such rider bets.

Dog Hand

[Aruuba]

Also riders get to choose whether to
> split, double or take insurance, depending
> on what the primary player does of course..

If the seated player splits, does the rider have the option of not splitting? Or is he required to go along with the split of the seated player?

Naturally it would be advantageous to be able to play only one hand, while the seated player would have to split.

[chancer]

> If the seated player splits, does the rider
> have the option of not splitting? Or is he
> required to go along with the split of the
> seated player?

The rider can choose to play on one hand or both.
As well as choose not to double down when the player does.
Also if the player chooses to take even money on his BJ, the rider may decline, and play out the hand. Of course a BJ is the only hand that can be insured in the UK game.

[Aruuba]

> The rider can choose to play on one hand or
> both.
> As well as choose not to double down when
> the player does.
> Also if the player chooses to take even
> money on his BJ, the rider may decline, and
> play out the hand. Of course a BJ is the
> only hand that can be insured in the UK
> game.

Thanks. I guess that means the rider would never have to play 8,8 vs 10, instead turning that hand into a free 8 vs 10!

And, as Dog Hand pointed out, if the seated player bets small and is willing to make sacrificial plays, while his rider-buddy bets big, one can enjoy playing at a reduced house edge of up to 0.2%.

Makes one wonder why be a seated player?

[chancer]

Yes 0.2% would be correct, making the house edge around 0.277% for the 4 deck and 0.33% for the 6 deck.

I guess the challenge is to find a mate you trust to ride on, or take a chance on a stranger who can play decent BS.

It would also be interesting to know the SCORE of a game where you could jump in on a positive TC, and ride on the back of an acomplice.

> Thanks. I guess that means the rider would
> never have to play 8,8 vs 10, instead
> turning that hand into a free 8 vs 10!

> And, as Dog Hand pointed out, if the seated
> player bets small and is willing to make
> sacrificial plays, while his rider-buddy
> bets big, one can enjoy playing at a reduced
> house edge of up to 0.2%.

> Makes one wonder why be a seated player?

[AdvantageRay]

I will be taking a trip accross the ocean there within the next year or so (not all business) but Ive got to be honest...with all of crazy shit Ive seen people do over my blackjack playing years, I just wouldnt feel comfy riding unless I knew and trusted the person explicitly..