bjplayer2004: When should I play 2 hands? thanks *NM*

[Echoe]

> One was at my local casino where they had
> many opportunties to observe my play. The
> other was at a casino where I only played a
> couple of times, and what did me in was
> spreading from one hand to two hands. This
> was at the rec chip leave and it wasn't even
> a very big spread(just two hands of 6 units
> each). The pit boss saw that and was over to
> the table in a flash. I believe this was the
> start of my being ID as a counter.

What did they say to you to "back you off"? Just curious, as I've had six pit bosses closely watching one game I was in...and we all (me and third base) walked with a lot of money, but no one said anything, and we were switching up one and two hands, with a 10 to 100 dollar spread, each, for about five shoes. They know I am not a counter, and they didn't know the other guy, who made the most money with black chip play. When he took the his 5k, they closed the table, (I didn't want to play alone, and it was 4am.) My casino's style of "backing you off" is call in a new shuffle or dealer and you'll quickly be out of chips. Do they actually ask you to leave? If so, do they tell you why? Just wondering, thanks.

[Parker]

The fact that the pit is merely watching a game closely is not necessary cause for concern. After all, that's what they get paid to do.

The "polite backoff" usually starts with the pitboss going outside the pit and standing behind the player. It continues with a tap on the shoulder, and goes something like this:

PB: Sir, would you mind stepping away from the table?

CC: "Huh?" (complies with request).

PB: "You play a very good game of blackjack, sir. We're going to have to ask that you not play any more. You are welcome to play any other game in the house."

CC: "Um, okay." (gathers chips and leaves table.)

Sometimes, the player will be flat-bet: "You may continue to play here only if you do not vary your bet. Your first bet of each session will be your minimum and maximum bet."

In some jurisdictions, casinos may not bar players simply for counting cards, so they simply make the game uncountable by instructing the dealer to cut off three of the six deck with the cutcard ("half-shoeing"). This has no effect on players who are not counting, other than slowing down the game.

[Echoe]

Thanks, Parker, for the explanation. As far as I can tell, this does not occur in my home casino. (I don't think there's a ban on card counters here, at least that's what the dealers tell me.)

Btw: regarding my game, above, it was unusual...it was 4am, we were the only table down stairs, (shufflemaster) and they called all the pitbosses from upstairs to observe the game, even the big bosses. I was highly amused, as the looks on their faces was something I'd not encountered before. Like I said, two weeks later, new "program" -- though I now hear it's called "recipe of the day".

> The fact that the pit is merely watching a
> game closely is not necessary cause for
> concern. After all, that's what they get
> paid to do.

> The "polite backoff" usually
> starts with the pitboss going outside the
> pit and standing behind the player. It
> continues with a tap on the shoulder, and
> goes something like this:

> PB: Sir, would you mind stepping away from
> the table?

> CC: "Huh?" (complies with
> request).

> PB: "You play a very good game of
> blackjack, sir. We're going to have to ask
> that you not play any more. You are welcome
> to play any other game in the house."

> CC: "Um, okay." (gathers chips and
> leaves table.)

> Sometimes, the player will be flat-bet:
> "You may continue to play here only if
> you do not vary your bet. Your first bet of
> each session will be your minimum and
> maximum bet."

> In some jurisdictions, casinos may not bar
> players simply for counting cards, so they
> simply make the game uncountable by
> instructing the dealer to cut off three of
> the six deck with the cutcard
> ("half-shoeing"). This has no
> effect on players who are not counting,
> other than slowing down the game.

[Ouchez]

of pride or having "made it" by being backed off or barred.

I view it as a major defeat and failure, and it is no fun when it happens.

There are some very good cover techniques you can use that will cost you 0 in the ev department but will totally confuse the critters. If you are being watched, as you said, I think you should have taken a break, if you are a AP'ER. I think it *strange*, the situation you describe. Winning $5000 is really not that big a deal if you are BC player and doing 2 hands. I know the casinos see players win much more on a regular basis.

Regards,
Ouchez.

[Brick Waller]

that the only two times you ever spread to 2 hands during sessions are the only 2 time you've ever been backed off in your life?

So a pit boss barred you immediately just because you decided to bet $30 on an extra spot, what a moron.

I've never been barred and I've been betting a little more than that for years. I very seldom catch any heat. The worse case I've had is terrible pen or a shuffle-up. Casinos in reality dont barr as many players as one who lurks the internet would think.

[Brick Waller]

[Electric Kid]

of how a backoff happens, and mine was very similiar to his description. However, I was flat-betted so I guess I shouldn't have used the word "backoff". In my case, I got the tap when I sat out a hand. I said I had to count my chips to see if I was up or down and that pit boss must of been waiting behind me, but the heat started when I spread from one hand to two.

[Electric Kid]

I'm saying spreading to two hands can draw heat and attention. I've done this many times, but this time it drew attention and heat because the pit boss came to the table and counted the cards.

[Ouchez]

> I'm saying spreading to two hands can draw
> heat and attention. I've done this many
> times, but this time it drew attention and
> heat because the pit boss came to the table
> and counted the cards.

your playing style, very aggressive and skilled, are you sure it was not *something* else that drew their attention. For some reason I think you may be mistaken about the 1 to 2 hand thing.

Just wondering,
Ouchez.

[Hard 8 :: ::]

I remember one avid and tenaceous pit critter at the Golden Gate a number of years ago who apparently prioritized the spotting of counters. They did have a good single deck game, so they probably did get tartgeted more than their share. This particular PC was borderline hyper - you could feel the waves of aggression rolling off of her if she suspected you were any kind of decent player. She had the same practiced look of intimidation that judges seem to pride themselves in.

Anyhow, one time I was running my bets up and down, but raising during only some of the high counts. Now, this was a nickel table, no big deal, right? When she was elsewhere (changing out cards, etc, I'd run up a pretty steep ramp. But, after less than half an hour, she was leaning on the table next to the dealer, and every time my bet went over ten bucks, she'd bark at the dealer, "SHUFFLE!"

Not what I'd call heat, exactly, but you knew that she knew that you knew, etc etc.

I stuck it out for another few minutes just to be an aggravation, posting my bet a split second before the dealer would pull the first card, but you know it's time to move on.

>The fact that the pit is merely watching a
> game closely is not necessary cause for
> concern. After all, that's what they get
> paid to do.

> The "polite backoff" usually
> starts with the pitboss going outside the
> pit and standing behind the player. It
> continues with a tap on the shoulder, and
> goes something like this:

> PB: Sir, would you mind stepping away from
> the table?

> CC: "Huh?" (complies with
> request).

> PB: "You play a very good game of
> blackjack, sir. We're going to have to ask
> that you not play any more. You are welcome
> to play any other game in the house."

> CC: "Um, okay." (gathers chips and
> leaves table.)

> Sometimes, the player will be flat-bet:
> "You may continue to play here only if
> you do not vary your bet. Your first bet of
> each session will be your minimum and
> maximum bet."

> In some jurisdictions, casinos may not bar
> players simply for counting cards, so they
> simply make the game uncountable by
> instructing the dealer to cut off three of
> the six deck with the cutcard
> ("half-shoeing"). This has no
> effect on players who are not counting,
> other than slowing down the game.