J: "Real world" expectations of going pro?

[BJT]

> I understand,but you said if you have only a
> 15k bank you can be a pro. it's not that
> easy.
Who said it is easy?

> Yes,the less risk,the less gamble.
I said BJ is less risk.

> Betting with full kelly is risky.
Who said I bet with full Kelly? With $425k, I bet $3,000 max in most cases per table limits, it worked out to be about 1/4 Kelly.

> How do you arrive at this? It would be nice
> if we could walk up to a blackjack table and
> collect our ev(expected value)every minute
> but this dont happen in the real world.
It does not work out in the short run, it works out in the long run and I am in the long run.

> There is no promise to be made you'll get
> anything in return.
That's why it was called EV.

> I must say you've been very lucky to not
> understand why I would think something like
> this to be true.
I lost $20,000 one shoe, $9,000 one hand. I know what you were talking about.

> Where I'm from positive off the top games
> dont exist, if they did I'd be rich. Finding
> good conditions dont mean I'm able to sit at
> the tables 24/7.
> How do you manage to find these regular off
> the top BJ games that give the player an
> edge? In the USA they dont exist. Most of
> the BJ games overseas are worse,or worse
> than terrible.
I travelled to 40 countries playing BJ. I know at least 10 countries at present with positive-off-the-top games. You can find them if you use bjonlie.com (which was discontiued... too bad). POTT doesn't exist at USA constantly, true. You think most BJ in the world are worse than USA then you are blind. BJ card counting was invented by American. American casinos have most experience on dealing with card counters. How can American's games be better than other countries?
It is like saying Haiti will land on Mars earlier than American (have you been to Haiti's casinos?)
> What countries are they at?
I will not tell you. Pick 10 countries with BJ randomly (you know there are morethan 110 countries with BJ?), go to them, you'll find several if you are smart enough to count.
> Under my conditions(and most others) it is
> much more difficult to say "I'm Going
> Pro" than your conditions.
Excuses, escuses, excuses for laziness.

[Mark]

As a follow up from my first post here is a bit of extra info.

On the week when I decided that I was going to play I seemed to averaged about 30 hours per week. I found this physically and mentally very exhausting.

At first I thought I could play 40-50 hours per week but I found this to be unrealistic. Even in places with lots of casinos there is still travel time and lots unforseen things which seem to interupt my play.

As I said in my previous post I made a clear profit of 35k on top of all my expenses for the year. This was tax free money and I had a great time travelling so all my hard work did pay off.

You wanted to know about Europe ...

There is a very typical game which can be found in most of western Europe. Its 6D DAS D9 SPL4 with no whole card, penitration is typically 4-4.5 decks. It is also usually slow moving and crowded. It commonly refered to as "Euro Trash" and its not worth traveling for.

However ...

There also really some good games which are equally as profitable as the better games in Vegas dotted around Europe which you can play for many hours before they tell you to get lost.

In Eastern Europe and Russia there are well known games that give you a positive edge off the top.
Generally speaking the more dangerous the country the better the BJ game.

Americans are often put off by the European rules as they are generally worse than the US but the rules aren't always everything.

If you find good penitration and speed you can still do very well.

Also, in almost all games outside the US you last much longer as a counter with out getting barred. Counter awarness is much lower. You can stand around all day and then repeatedly jump in
at the end of a shoe with your big bet. You can also play big spreads like 1-20 and not have to cringe as the dealer yells out "checks play"

If you persisit you will get barred eventually but it will probably be in the order of days instead of hours like the US.

Hope this helps.

[BJT]

> Most of the BJ games overseas are worse,or >worse than terrible. What countries are they at?
Most countries have better BJs than USA. I will tell you some of the countries:
Ecuador: ES
Nepal: 4D
Egypt: ES
I wrote all these countries on the past 3 issues /and last 3 :<.../ of BJ Forum, all these countries have BJs better than USA and they are not alone!

[Parker]

I deleted the links.

[Parker]

> I know SM personally, and what it has done
> for him is take him from a street tramp to a
> top notch world class professional.

I don't doubt that for a second. My comment was made tongue firmly in cheek, hence the "smiley."

Judging by his response, SM took it in the humorous vein that was intended.

> Believe me, for some people, this is exactly
> the right profession.

No doubt. However, as DD', myself and others have mentioned, when you are ready to turn pro, you will know it.

[suicyco maniac]

Is quite an overstatement regarding myself!!!! However I do manage to do a lot better then most people imagine at this game. It can be done but it is hard work... BTW you can take the tramp out of the street but you can't take the street out of the tramp!! SM

> I know SM personally, and what it has done
> for him is take him from a street tramp to a
> top notch world class professional.

> Believe me, for some people, this is exactly
> the right profession.

[Sun Runner]

> As I said in my previous post I made a clear
> profit of 35k on top of all my expenses for
> the year.

Actually, this is what you said .. "Off a $30k bank roll I paid for the trip and still had $35k to spare."

Just for clarity, at year end, after all the smoke had cleared, were you holding $35K or $65K total?

Thanks; a real interersting perspective.

[BJT]

I have travelled to about 40 countries so far. I plan going to 100 countries playing BJ. I am sure you will be interested in some of the countries I played while I am interested in yours. If you were interested in exchaning some information so we can save time in finding good games or not wasting time going to bad games, please e-mail me at [email protected]

[Mark]

I think my first e-mail was worded a little poorly.

I ended up with $65000 in my bank account. The 30,000 I started with and 35000 on top of that.

Plus I covered all my travel and living expenses.

> Actually, this is what you said .. "Off
> a $30k bank roll I paid for the trip and
> still had $35k to spare."

> Just for clarity, at year end, after all the
> smoke had cleared, were you holding $35K or
> $65K total?

> Thanks; a real interersting perspective.

[Shark]

Mark,

I have similar experiences of playing in East Eurupe as opposed to the U.S.

I couldn't have formulate it into such a nice post.

If you care to exchange info, please drop me a note at above email address. Shark

> As a follow up from my first post here is a
> bit of extra info.

> On the week when I decided that I was going
> to play I seemed to averaged about 30 hours
> per week. I found this physically and
> mentally very exhausting.

> At first I thought I could play 40-50 hours
> per week but I found this to be unrealistic.
> Even in places with lots of casinos there is
> still travel time and lots unforseen things
> which seem to interupt my play.

> As I said in my previous post I made a clear
> profit of 35k on top of all my expenses for
> the year. This was tax free money and I had
> a great time travelling so all my hard work
> did pay off.

> You wanted to know about Europe ...

> There is a very typical game which can be
> found in most of western Europe. Its 6D DAS
> D9 SPL4 with no whole card, penitration is
> typically 4-4.5 decks. It is also usually
> slow moving and crowded. It commonly refered
> to as "Euro Trash" and its not
> worth traveling for.

> However ...

> There also really some good games which are
> equally as profitable as the better games in
> Vegas dotted around Europe which you can
> play for many hours before they tell you to
> get lost.

> In Eastern Europe and Russia there are well
> known games that give you a positive edge
> off the top.
> Generally speaking the more dangerous the
> country the better the BJ game.

> Americans are often put off by the European
> rules as they are generally worse than the
> US but the rules aren't always everything.

> If you find good penitration and speed you
> can still do very well.

> Also, in almost all games outside the US you
> last much longer as a counter with out
> getting barred. Counter awarness is much
> lower. You can stand around all day and then
> repeatedly jump in
> at the end of a shoe with your big bet. You
> can also play big spreads like 1-20 and not
> have to cringe as the dealer yells out
> "checks play"

> If you persisit you will get barred
> eventually but it will probably be in the
> order of days instead of hours like the US.

> Hope this helps.

[Sun Runner]

In 12 months, off a $30K BR you doubled your money, paid your expenses, and saw the world.

I'd say you did all right.

I know you didn't see it from the Taj Mahal, but you did all right.

So what's the next goal, turning $65K into $150K?