J: "Real world" expectations of going pro?

[J]

Hi everyone,

This is a great community and I appreciate all of the excellent discussion.

I am seriously considering "going pro" as an advantage BJ player. I have become pretty good with a system and enjoy advantage play.

Are there enough good games out there to make a living playing as a pro?

Can this realistically be done with a $25 unit with a 600 unit bankroll?

I know I can expect 5-6 unit/hour with good dealers, but realistically how much playing time can I expect?

For those of you who have done this as your only source of income, how much travel is involved? How do you stay on top of where the good games are? How frequently do you visit the same casino? Is it worth it to play in Europe?

The 5-6 unit/hour approximation is a nice start, but I'm curious about the "real world" of being a pro. Can I make a decent living playing green?

Would you share any other advice for me beginning as a professional?

Thanks for listening and thanks in advance for your advice!

J

[Parker]

> Hi everyone,

> This is a great community and I appreciate
> all of the excellent discussion.

> I am seriously considering "going
> pro" as an advantage BJ player. I have
> become pretty good with a system and enjoy
> advantage play.

> Are there enough good games out there to
> make a living playing as a pro?

There are very few "good" games. There are a lot of playable game that will require an agressive spread with little regard for cover. Expect to get tossed a lot.

> Can this realistically be done with a $25
> unit with a 600 unit bankroll?

No.

> I know I can expect 5-6 unit/hour with good
> dealers, but realistically how much playing
> time can I expect?

Where on earth did you come up with this figure? A real-world win rate is more like around 2 units per hour.

> For those of you who have done this as your
> only source of income, how much travel is
> involved? How do you stay on top of where
> the good games are? How frequently do you
> visit the same casino? Is it worth it to
> play in Europe?

> The 5-6 unit/hour approximation is a nice
> start, but I'm curious about the "real
> world" of being a pro. Can I make a
> decent living playing green?

No. There are some people who manage to scrape out an existance playing green, but I would not call it a "decent living."

Also keep in mind that as a pro you are self-employed. You pay your own medical expenses, if you take time off you don't make any money, and there is no retirement fund unless you create one.

> Would you share any other advice for me
> beginning as a professional?

When you're ready to turn pro, you will know it. You will not be asking questions such as these on message boards, because you will already know the answers.

> Thanks for listening and thanks in advance
> for your advice!

It is possible to make a living in today's playing conditions, but it is most certainly not an easy living. The full time pros that I know personally are a unique group of rugged individualists who are exceptionally intelligent and possess a high degree of self-discipline. They would likely succeed in any endeavor they attempted, and they have my utmost respect.

The truth is, if you have amassed the bankroll necessary to turn pro ($50K min), you probably have found an easier way to make a living.

[suicyco maniac]

Not by counting alone!!!!! 5 to 6 units is WAY unrealistic....It is possible to do a lot better then just "scrape by" as Parker said but you have to be able to play a lot of hours a lot of promos and alot of different games. It is no peice of cake and definatly not for most people... but it can be done i know cuz I'm makin it SM

> There are very few "good" games.
> There are a lot of playable game that will
> require an agressive spread with little
> regard for cover. Expect to get tossed a
> lot.

> No.

> Where on earth did you come up with this
> figure? A real-world win rate is more like
> around 2 units per hour.

> No. There are some people who manage to
> scrape out an existance playing green, but I
> would not call it a "decent
> living."

> Also keep in mind that as a pro you are
> self-employed. You pay your own medical
> expenses, if you take time off you don't
> make any money, and there is no retirement
> fund unless you create one.

> When you're ready to turn pro, you will know
> it. You will not be asking questions such as
> these on message boards, because you will
> already know the answers.

> It is possible to make a living in today's
> playing conditions, but it is most certainly
> not an easy living. The full time pros that
> I know personally are a unique group of
> rugged individualists who are exceptionally
> intelligent and possess a high degree of
> self-discipline. They would likely succeed
> in any endeavor they attempted, and they
> have my utmost respect.

> The truth is, if you have amassed the
> bankroll necessary to turn pro ($50K min),
> you probably have found an easier way to
> make a living.

[Parker]

>.. but it can be done i know cuz I'm makin it SM

Yeah, but look what it has done to you. :-)

[suicyco maniac]

> Yeah, but look what it has done to you. :-)
You might be right....but Damn it feels good

[Anonymous this time]

I know SM personally, and what it has done for him is take him from a street tramp to a top notch world class professional.

Believe me, for some people, this is exactly the right profession.

[Parker]

> I know SM personally, and what it has done
> for him is take him from a street tramp to a
> top notch world class professional.

I don't doubt that for a second. My comment was made tongue firmly in cheek, hence the "smiley."

Judging by his response, SM took it in the humorous vein that was intended.

> Believe me, for some people, this is exactly
> the right profession.

No doubt. However, as DD', myself and others have mentioned, when you are ready to turn pro, you will know it.

[suicyco maniac]

Is quite an overstatement regarding myself!!!! However I do manage to do a lot better then most people imagine at this game. It can be done but it is hard work... BTW you can take the tramp out of the street but you can't take the street out of the tramp!! SM

> I know SM personally, and what it has done
> for him is take him from a street tramp to a
> top notch world class professional.

> Believe me, for some people, this is exactly
> the right profession.

[All-time high]

> Where on earth did you come up with this
> figure? A real-world win rate is more like
> around 2 units per hour.

In my experience it's more like 1 unit per hour after camo is taken into account at mid green to low black levels. And this is playing time, not including the massive time lost for travelling between casinos (which is necessary).

ATH

[Parker]

> In my experience it's more like 1 unit per
> hour after camo is taken into account at mid
> green to low black levels. And this is
> playing time, not including the massive time
> lost for travelling between casinos (which
> is necessary).

For the typical player you are probably correct. In order to get 2 units/hour the player must be very discriminating regarding game selection, and be willing to employ an agressive playing and betting strategy with little or nothing in the way of camo. He must also be prepared to leave the table the moment conditions deteriorate (more players join the game, new dealer giving inferior pen, etc.).

This means that our pro will frequently be asked to take his action elsewhere (as I mentioned in my earlier post), and as you mentioned, will spend a lot of time traveling between casinos.

A common occurance will be driving, perhaps a considerable distance, to reach a particular casino, only to leave without playing a hand after finding no playable games there. With today's gas prices, expenses can quickly accumulate.

In today's environment, between the back-offs, the preponderance of mediocre games, and the travel between casinos, our pro is likely to have weeks with only ten hours or so of actual playing time.

[DD']

A person ready to go pro has been a serious semi-pro for years, knows the ropes, knows the games, is familiar with the major gaming areas, knows lots of pro players, and is already aware of the risks and challenges that will be faced. The very fact that you are asking the question means that you are not ready.

[K]

After reading your post, I dont think you even have the basic fundamentals of blackjack down. Thinking about going pro on your terms is no different than a ozark hillbilly thinking about becoming president. No offense,but how old are you,--have you ever even been to a casino before?

> Hi everyone,

> This is a great community and I appreciate
> all of the excellent discussion.

> I am seriously considering "going
> pro" as an advantage BJ player. I have
> become pretty good with a system and enjoy
> advantage play.

> Are there enough good games out there to
> make a living playing as a pro?

> Can this realistically be done with a $25
> unit with a 600 unit bankroll?

> I know I can expect 5-6 unit/hour with good
> dealers, but realistically how much playing
> time can I expect?

> For those of you who have done this as your
> only source of income, how much travel is
> involved? How do you stay on top of where
> the good games are? How frequently do you
> visit the same casino? Is it worth it to
> play in Europe?

> The 5-6 unit/hour approximation is a nice
> start, but I'm curious about the "real
> world" of being a pro. Can I make a
> decent living playing green?

> Would you share any other advice for me
> beginning as a professional?

> Thanks for listening and thanks in advance
> for your advice!

> J

[Ouchez]

> Hi everyone,

> This is a great community and I appreciate
> all of the excellent discussion.

> I am seriously considering "going
> pro" as an advantage BJ player. I have
> become pretty good with a system and enjoy
> advantage play.

> Are there enough good games out there to
> make a living playing as a pro?

> Can this realistically be done with a $25
> unit with a 600 unit bankroll?

> I know I can expect 5-6 unit/hour with good
> dealers, but realistically how much playing
> time can I expect?

> For those of you who have done this as your
> only source of income, how much travel is
> involved? How do you stay on top of where
> the good games are? How frequently do you
> visit the same casino? Is it worth it to
> play in Europe?

> The 5-6 unit/hour approximation is a nice
> start, but I'm curious about the "real
> world" of being a pro. Can I make a
> decent living playing green?

> Would you share any other advice for me
> beginning as a professional?

> Thanks for listening and thanks in advance
> for your advice!

> J

and play part time and hone those skillz. There is nothing better than having the best of both worlds. The games today get worse, not better, and they are just not that good anymore.

When the time comes you can retire with a pension,SS, etc. and then travel around and play full time. Forget about the full time pro stuff, for the good of you and those who love you.

Now go out and play some part time BJ!

Regards,
Ouchez.