REKO and 12v4

[88state]

Hi everyone! I am new and am learning basic strategy and REKO, and I have a question:

In Modern Blackjack, it states that with REKO, the play change that occurs at +2 includes standing on 12v4. However, the basic strategy charts I have generated using web based already say stay on 12v4. The chart included in Modern Blackjack even says to stay on 12v4. I was under the impression that with REKO, you use basic strategy until you hit +2. Am I missing something?

[jaygruden]

It depends on the number of decks. If playing 8D game then REKO tells you to always stand on 12 v 4. But if playing 6D or less (including DD & SD) then hit 12 v 4 until you hit the index (+2) then stand. Look at the charts in the appendix at the end of the book and you can see the full (non-compromised) index number for each number of decks for each play. These are used only if you are using REKO-F but looking at these charts will help you understand why you use this play adjustment for 6D & less but not for 8D game.

http://www.qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage245.htm

[88state]

Thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure what I am supposed to look at in that link. the 5 REKO charts only address surrender, splitting, and doubling.

Also, when looking at basic strategy, it says to stand on 12v4 no matter how many decks, so I don't see how that could be it. I am using this to generate basic strategy: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php

[TheBalanceOfJudgement]

Every BS chart I have ever seen has stand on 12v4, regardless of number of decks... I actually noticed this too but ignored it.

[Norm]

Basic Strategy is NOT the same as the strategy at a count of zero. This is a common misunderstanding. Basic Strategy decisions include the cards in the hand. And they have a count.

[88state]

Thanks for the reply Norm, however it does say in "Modern Blackjack": "With REKO, we normally play basic strategy, except when we have a count of +2 or greater." Is this not accurate?

[jaygruden]

Thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure what I am supposed to look at in that link. the 5 REKO charts only address surrender, splitting, and doubling.

Also, when looking at basic strategy, it says to stand on 12v4 no matter how many decks, so I don't see how that could be it. I am using this to generate basic strategy: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php

You're not looking at the full charts. Each of the 5 charts cover 2 pages each. You have to turn the page in the book to see the "hard hit/stand" charts.

[Norm]

Thanks for the reply Norm, however it does say in "Modern Blackjack": "With REKO, we normally play basic strategy, except when we have a count of +2 or greater." Is this not accurate?

You play two basic strategies. One for below +2 and one for +2 and above.

[jgrinspan]

You play two basic strategies. One for below +2 and one for +2 and above.

Is it safe to say that the REKO strategy played below a RC of +2 is not what is commonly known as "Basic" strategy, but instead it is the strategy you play in REKO below a RC of +2 only when planning to apply the REKO deviations above +2?

[PinkChip]

Basic Strategy is NOT the same as the strategy at a count of zero. This is a common misunderstanding. Basic Strategy decisions include the cards in the hand. And they have a count.

Hi Norm,

(this is the very first post I make, so I hope it is not too silly).
I also thought when reading this strategy play "But this makes no sense,
because you should stand with 12 vs. 4 anyway by Basic Strategy".

Also, for higher counts, you should also stand with 12 vs. 3 (which is
a coin-flip already in neutral decks) and even with 12 vs. 2.
So I do not get the point why you should memorise a strategy "variation"
for 12 vs. 4?

Regarding BS versus TC = 0:

you are right, since even at the beginning of a 6-deck shoe,
the RC of the three cards (2 player cards plus dealer upcard)
lies between -3 and +3, so the TC (= RC divided by 6 decks remaining)
lies between -0.5 and +0.5, which is not always zero.

Kind Regards

[Norm]

With higher counts, you are more likely to bust, as i\s the dealer. With lower counts, you are more likely to improve your hand, and the dealer is more likely to improve her hand. So, hit with low counts and stand with high.

[PinkChip]

Yes, I know that principle of "at high counts, you do double more often, split more often, surrender more often and stand more often" due to the increased chance of dealer busting. I also have read more than 20 of the serious books now, dealing with lots of aspects of different count systems. Personally, I prefer simplicity, that means Hi-Lo or even KO with few index numbers, so I tend to ignore the index plays for low counts ("negative counts" if using a balanced count), since you have little if any money bet in these situations.

So, what is still not clear to me regarding 12 vs. 4 (maybe since I know KO much better than REKO):
Standing with high counts is clear. But when do you switch to standing? Is REKO demaning hitting
on 12 vs. 4 for all running counts of plus 1 or lower? What true count does this correspond to?

What is confusing me:

Let us assume you get (10, 2) vs. 4 at the beginning of a new 6-deck shoe,
so the RC is 1 higher than the IRC (initial running count),
so the REKO count is -20 + 1 = -19, which is far below +2.

Your book says "With REKO, we normally play Basic Strategy,
except when we have a count of +2 or greater".
Every Basic Strategy chart I know says to stand on 12 vs. 4.
So you should follow Basic Strategy, thus stand on 12 vs. 4,
although the count is way below +2. And when the count reaches
and exceeds +2 later, you shall still stand on 12 vs. 4,
so where is the "strategy switch"?

[Norm]

It's really very simple. You stand with +2 and higher and hit otherwise. +2 is always the REKO index. The decisions were selected with exhaustive simulation to determine which decisions make sense for different numbers of decks. 12v4 was selected because the sims said it should be selected.