John: Tonight on Court TV. "Taking Vegas"

[John]

Tonight at 10 pm on "The System" is a program about the MIT students. It looked pretty good.

[Ouchez]

[Ouchez]

> Tonight at 10 pm on "The System"
> is a program about the MIT students. It
> looked pretty good.

Some thoughts.

The cop with the shotgun in his lap broke more laws and procedures in that one incident than the M.I.T. team ever dreamed of. This shows once again the collusion and corruption between public officials and the gambling houses. Corruption seems to always follow casinos.

The detective agency may also have broken some laws, such as Breaking And Entering.

If this team had been comprised of mature adults the tables could have been turned on the detectives and that rogue cop. That would have been more fun than the BJ plays.

I do cringe with so much information being made public, just heightens my concerns about the coming demise of any good BJ games left. These shows must just make the Casinos even more paranoid.

I have to fault the team to some extent for some of the mistakes they made, greed being one along with a few others. It is interesting to ponder how long they could have played without the insider leaks of information.

For others that may have enjoyed this show I recommend Kevins book "The Counter".

Ouchez.

[Norm Wattenberger]

There were obvious illegal acts; but they'd be hard to prove. OTOH, Griffin admitted to using CTR information to track down the team. IANAL, but this may be in violation of the Right to Financial Privacy Act. A casino is a financial institution since it lends money. Financial institutions cannot give out customer information to anyone they please. And in this case, they are giving out information on Federal forms. The IRS is specifically prohibited from releasing this info except for law enforcement purposes.

In this case, Griffin is taking private financial information and spreading this information across state lines to harm people that have committed no crime.

Putting aside the possible violations of Federal laws, this could make for an interesting suit. If this is illegal, seems to me that the MIT team could sue for lost income.

BJStats

[methodman]

> Yes Griffin broke the law,breaking into hotel rooms,threats,and breaking into ones own home,and then alerting the irs to do an audit on them.
>Just goes to show you not to get anything
in your own name:telephone,home,cable,etc.,if you want to play in the game of blackjack.
>Yes the team got greedy the take of 400k in one day at the sun,Ct. was unreal.They also liked ceasars,mirage,NY,NY for Vegas.

[Kevin Blackwood]

It is hard to say how accurate a TV show like that was in depicting the actions of Griffin. I think it is fairly common for the producers of any show to present a "Hollywood" version of events to make for more compelling Television.

BTW, thanks for the plug on my novel. As soon as I sell another 500,000 copies, I should pass Bringing Down The House on the best-seller lists. (In other words, it ain't going to happen until Hell freezes over or Caesars puts back their juicy single deck game).

[methodman]

[poboy]

Breaking and Entering isn't a crime. Police can't do it, but there is nothing that prevents citizens from breaking into your house, other than a tresspassing charge. A former prosecutor told me that it's perfectly legal for someone to break into your house when you're not there, seize contraband, and take it to directly to the police (they can NOT do this because the police told them to). This is acceptable evidence in any court of law. Of course you can try to convince the prosecutor to charge the citizen with tresspassing, but it's unlikely they'll do so. The 4th and 14th Amendments do not prevent ordinary citizens from violating your privacy. It's crazy, I know. But since the Griffin Agency is a private entity, not working with the police (or are they? they do have terrorists and known cheats in their BOOK), the only crime they could realistically be charged with by going into casino rooms and people's houses is tresspassing. If they go in with the intent to steal something, obviously that is another story...

[bigplayer]

Nevada CTR forms are not federal forms but state forms per reg 6A. I do think that recent privacy laws prohibit casinos from sharing information with other casinos and with Griffin but no one has attempted to beat them on this yet.

[Norm Wattenberger]

State laws vary. In my state, breaking and entering is certainly a crime. You can still take evidence to the police. But, you will go to jail.

> Breaking and Entering isn't a crime. Police
> can't do it, but there is nothing that
> prevents citizens from breaking into your
> house, other than a tresspassing charge. A
> former prosecutor told me that it's
> perfectly legal for someone to break into
> your house when you're not there, seize
> contraband, and take it to directly to the
> police (they can NOT do this because the
> police told them to). This is acceptable
> evidence in any court of law. Of course you
> can try to convince the prosecutor to charge
> the citizen with tresspassing, but it's
> unlikely they'll do so. The 4th and 14th
> Amendments do not prevent ordinary citizens
> from violating your privacy. It's crazy, I
> know. But since the Griffin Agency is a
> private entity, not working with the police
> (or are they? they do have terrorists and
> known cheats in their BOOK), the only crime
> they could realistically be charged with by
> going into casino rooms and people's houses
> is tresspassing. If they go in with the
> intent to steal something, obviously that is
> another story...

[Norm Wattenberger]

I don't know why the Nevada casino forms are different. But, I believe the reg 6a CTR is still a federal form.

> Nevada CTR forms are not federal forms but
> state forms per reg 6A. I do think that
> recent privacy laws prohibit casinos from
> sharing information with other casinos and
> with Griffin but no one has attempted to
> beat them on this yet.

[Bettie]

> For others that may have enjoyed this show I
> recommend Kevins book "The
> Counter".

Find more information and to order Kevin's book, follow the link below.

Thanks,
Bettie

Kevin Blackwood's The Counter

[Ouchez]

> It is hard to say how accurate a TV show
> like that was in depicting the actions of
> Griffin. I think it is fairly common for the
> producers of any show to present a
> "Hollywood" version of events to
> make for more compelling Television.

> BTW, thanks for the plug on my novel. As
> soon as I sell another 500,000 copies, I
> should pass Bringing Down The House on the
> best-seller lists. (In other words, it ain't
> going to happen until Hell freezes over or
> Caesars puts back their juicy single deck
> game).

disapointed in the sales of "The Counter". I thought it was an *excellent* book and actually had very fine BJ information in it for an advantage player as well as being a great thriller. It would make one hell of a movie!

I recently bought and read a much ballyoed best seller called "meant to be" by Anderson and found it dissapointing, even if all the talk show hosts hyped it.

Comparatively I found you're book much more entertaining and alot less money!

Often times when I am at the table and things are going bad my memory takes me back to Raven and then, remembering his tactics and strengh, I stay the course and usually walk away a winner.

Of course, I do feel a bit of a kinship with Raven, knowing what I know about him and where he made his greatest score.

Best to you,
Ouchez.