(1) DD, S17, DA2, DAS, split pairs to 4 hands, no RSA, no LS, 50% pen.
(2) DD, S17, D9, NDAS, split pairs to 2 hands, no RSA, no LS, 65% pen.
Can anybody give the SCORE for the above two games, assuming a 1-6 spread with Hi-Lo?
Also, how do the above two games compare to the following: 6D, S17, DA2, DAS, split pairs to 4 hands, no RSA, no LS, 75% pen., 1-12 spread.
Thanks in advance to those who respond.
If you're talking play-all with the 1-12 4.5/6, then I'm pretty sure these games would actually have similar c-SCOREs with a 1-6 spread and 1 or 2 players, though it would probably take 1-8 with crowded tables. Of course play-all, 1-12 4.5/6 isn't that profitable, so its not really the best game to compare to anyway.
ANS
> (1) DD, S17, DA2, DAS, split pairs to 4
> hands, no RSA, no LS, 50% pen.
> (2) DD, S17, D9, NDAS, split pairs to 2
> hands, no RSA, no LS, 65% pen.
> Can anybody give the SCORE for the above two
> games, assuming a 1-6 spread with Hi-Lo?
> Also, how do the above two games compare to
> the following: 6D, S17, DA2, DAS, split
> pairs to 4 hands, no RSA, no LS, 75% pen.,
> 1-12 spread.
> Thanks in advance to those who respond.
Sounds like the same crap I have to choose from. I just shop dealers and try to be patient.
> If you're talking play-all with the 1-12
> 4.5/6, then I'm pretty sure these games
> would actually have similar c-SCOREs with a
> 1-6 spread and 1 or 2 players, though it
> would probably take 1-8 with crowded tables.
>
> ANS
Why the higher spread with a crowded table? It will increase your hourly EV but will also increase the variance. I thought that only tables with 6+ players have lower EVs than less crowded tables. Is this just a way to increse profit despite fewer hands per hour?
-Sonny-
> If you're talking play-all with the 1-12
> 4.5/6, then I'm pretty sure these games
> would actually have similar c-SCOREs with a
> 1-6 spread and 1 or 2 players, though it
> would probably take 1-8 with crowded tables.
> Of course play-all, 1-12 4.5/6 isn't that
> profitable, so its not really the best game
> to compare to anyway.
> ANS
With the 6D game, I would Wong out when the TC <= -2. With that additional info., how would you rank the three games? I'm especially interested in a comparison between the two DD games. I'll list the specifics again below so you (or anybody else who cares to respond) don't have to go back to my original post. Thanks again.
(1) DD, S17, DA2, DAS, split pairs to 4 hands, no RSA, no LS, 50% pen.
(2) DD, S17, D9, NDAS, split pairs to 2 hands, no RSA, no LS, 65% pen.
"With the 6D game, I would Wong out when the TC <= -2."
OK, good strategy. That will provide a substantial gain without requiring too much hopping, I believe -2 is a good general guideline.
"With that additional info., how would you rank the three games? I'm especially interested in a comparison between the two DD games."
I don't have data for 1-12, 4.5/6, -2 table departure for Hi-Lo, but I can tell you that the SCORE will be more than double that of play-all. According to Norm's SCORE calculator at BJStats, Hi-Lo, 4.5/6, S17/DOA/DAS, 1-12, play-all SCOREs $18.71.
As for the DD games, according to Norm's calc:
(1) DD, S17, DA2, DAS, 50% pen SCOREs $24.93. Not sure what the split specs are, but the effects are negligible.
(2) DD, S17, D9, NDAS, split pairs to 2 hands, no RSA, no LS, 65% pen. The calculator does not feature a D9 feature, but I believe using H17 will provide a conservative estimate. According to the calc, DD, H17/NDAS, 66% pen SCOREs $27.60. Again, I'm not sure of the split specs, but as I said the effects would be negligible.
We see the games in question were actually significantly better than the 1-12 play-all 4.5/6, but with table departure the 6 decker is of course the clear favorite.
ANS
> Why the higher spread with a crowded table?
Due to effects full tables have on one's ability to vary bets with the count and also the effect of more rounds against a fresh shuffle.
> I thought that only tables with 6+ players have > lower EVs than less crowded tables.
The data I have compares 2 players to 6 players. For DD, 1-6 it shows a decrease in ROI (equivalent to c-SCORE) of 10%-15% with mediocre pen and a decrease of almost 30% with very good pen! I don't see how something of this magnitude could just disappear magically with less than 6 players, but nonetheless I would be interested in seeing how impactful the effects are on 3-5 players.
ANS
My strategy is to not do a sim. That way, if I'm right, I look like a genius, and if I'm wrong, I learn something and inform my intuition. I can't lose! ;-)
I think it's close, but I'd go for the deeper pen. That is to say, 1) is worse than 2).
The 6d game Wonged is better than either, and worse than both without Wonging.
My solution: Wong the 65% pen 2d (sit out at TC < -1)! Seriously. Ploppies love it when you do that.
ETF
> (1) DD, S17, DA2, DAS, split pairs to 4
> hands, no RSA, no LS, 50% pen.
> (2) DD, S17, D9, NDAS, split pairs to 2
> hands, no RSA, no LS, 65% pen.
> Can anybody give the SCORE for the above two
> games, assuming a 1-6 spread with Hi-Lo?
> Also, how do the above two games compare to
> the following: 6D, S17, DA2, DAS, split
> pairs to 4 hands, no RSA, no LS, 75% pen.,
> 1-12 spread.
> Thanks in advance to those who respond.
..don't knnow where that came from, lol.
ANS
> I don't see how something of this magnitude could just
> disappear magically with less than 6 players, but nonetheless
> I would be interested in seeing how impactful the effects
> are on 3-5 players.
>
>ANS
I got my info from our friends at DeepNet Tech. They show how the EV-per-hand does not change much with less than 6 players. They admit that there are flaws due to unrealistic penetration levels in 1-2 deck sims, but the rest seems good.
I see what you mean about the inability to vary your bets. Obviously, if you're only getting two rounds you can't vary more than once per deck. And if you're only getting one round, then they're ALL off the top. YECH!
-Sonny-
But wouldn't a play-all strategy on the 6D (same as before), but with a 83% pen beat these DD games? I can find a few dealers where I play who cut only 1 deck off these 6D, and sometimes it's too crowded to wong out too often.
> "With the 6D game, I would Wong out
> when the TC OK, good strategy. That will
> provide a substantial gain without requiring
> too much hopping, I believe -2 is a good
> general guideline.
> "With that additional info., how would
> you rank the three games? I'm especially
> interested in a comparison between the two
> DD games."
> I don't have data for 1-12, 4.5/6, -2 table
> departure for Hi-Lo, but I can tell you that
> the SCORE will be more than double that of
> play-all. According to Norm's SCORE
> calculator at BJStats, Hi-Lo, 4.5/6,
> S17/DOA/DAS, 1-12, play-all SCOREs $18.71.
> As for the DD games, according to Norm's
> calc:
> (1) DD, S17, DA2, DAS, 50% pen SCOREs
> $24.93. Not sure what the split specs are,
> but the effects are negligible.
> (2) DD, S17, D9, NDAS, split pairs to 2
> hands, no RSA, no LS, 65% pen. The
> calculator does not feature a D9 feature,
> but I believe using H17 will provide a
> conservative estimate. According to the
> calc, DD, H17/NDAS, 66% pen SCOREs $27.60.
> Again, I'm not sure of the split specs, but
> as I said the effects would be negligible.
> We see the games in question were actually
> significantly better than the 1-12 play-all
> 4.5/6, but with table departure the 6 decker
> is of course the clear favorite.
> ANS
With changes in number of players, EV changes substantially when any cover is used.
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