rick: need some advice

[rick]

I need to pick a system to play six deck, I learned the Canfield many years ago and I have not played in about twenty years..I want to get back in but when reading Wongs book he said that betting 25-100 my expectation was only 16.00 an hour.. that seems very low am I misunderstanding or how do you guys make any money at six deck, Thanks, Rick

[Don Schlesinger]

> I want to get back in but when reading Wongs
> book he said that betting 25-100 my
> expectation was only 16.00 an hour.. that
> seems very low am I misunderstanding or how
> do you guys make any money at six deck,

By a) back-counting, b) spreading more widely, or c) all of the above! :-)

Don

[rick]

Thanks for the post...Maybe I should be in the beginners section but could you tell me what a back counting system is..Thanks, Rick

[Adam N. Subtractum]

[Parker]

> I need to pick a system to play six deck, I
> learned the Canfield many years ago and I
> have not played in about twenty years..I
> want to get back in but when reading Wongs
> book he said that betting 25-100 my
> expectation was only 16.00 an hour.. that
> seems very low am I misunderstanding or how
> do you guys make any money at six deck,
> Thanks, Rick

The way to beat the 6 deck shoe is with bet spread. Your $25-$100 is only a 1-4 spread, which, as the numbers indicate, is not really adequate. You need at least 1-10, and 1-12 is better. You can achieve this by raising your max bet, dropping your "waiting bet" during negative counts, or a combination. Spread $10-$100, $25-$300, etc.

Or, you can "wong" the game - not play at all during negative counts. Here a much smaller spread is required, since you are effectively betting zero on the negative rounds.

The problem with the Canfield systems is that they do not count the ace, so a side count is required for optimum betting efficiency, making them more complex.

Hi-lo has an excellent betting correlation, is easy to learn and use, and there is a wealth of information available on it. It is ideally suited to the 6 deck shoe.

To simplify it even further, consider Hi-lo lite, as described in Blackbelt in Blackjack, by Arnold Snyder.

[Sun Runner]

> Thanks for the post...Maybe I should be in
> the beginners section but could you tell me
> what a back counting system is.

The idea is that playing multi-decks, why sit through the negative and neutral counts even with a minimum bet out. Don't start to play until the count is positive.

Ideally, back counting is standng back off the table at the start of a new shoe, start keeping the count as the cards are played, move in with bigger [than your minimum] bets as the count goes positive, move off the table when you believe the remaining shoe to be of no value.

I believe Stanford Wong first quantified this strategy hence that whole process is referred to as "Wonging." (see Parkers reference to it below).

Of course you have to work the whole process without looking like a vulture ready to pounce on a piece of meat. Some people I know can't quite get over feeling like Bonnie and Clyde waiting to rob the next bank.

Some casino's will not allow you to enter a game mid-shoe; their effort to thwart back-counting.

One of the best narratives I have read about back counting -in addition to Wong's stuff -is Don Schlesinger's book Blackjack Attack. In addittion to a whole lot of mind-numbing mathematics, it has a GREAT chapter on back counting. It's not a beginners book for sure, but worth the $$$ if for this one chapter alone.

SR

[Soft17]

If you read the book BlackJack Attack II by DonS or play around with the BJRM Software, you will notice that nothing screws your ROR and EV more that the twilight zone (TC <=1). Even though you are making minimum bets during this period, the huge number of hands played makes for a lot of losing in the long run.

Hence the idea of back counting is to avoid this twilight zone altogether or as much as possible. Though avoiding it completely is tough as it makes you look like a, you know, back counter, there are many tricks that can be used:
1) switching tables when the count goes bad
2) staying out a few hands to "change the order of the cards"
3) using restroom
4) any other superstitions you can make up and get away with (dealer 21, 3 losses in a row, etc.)

Happy counting.

Soft17.