Alan: 7's vs 8 Double After Split Index

[Alan]

I'm wondering why the index for this scenario is -1. Apart from Hi Opt II, I haven't found any other counting system yet where 7's vs 8 in a DAS situation is a negative number.

Could someone enlighten me on this situation, as the index implies that basic strategy would be to split 7's vs 8 in DAS.

[Blille]

> Apart from Hi Opt II, I
> haven't found any other counting system yet
> where 7's vs 8 in a DAS situation is a
> negative number.

AOII has the same index (BJFB p. 140)

>Could someone enlighten me on this situation, as >the index implies that basic strategy would be >to split 7's vs 8 in DAS.

Yes, for 1 and 2 decks, basic strategy is to split 7's vs 8 in DAS.

[Alan]

Silly me. I meant to say I'm an AOII user and that Hi Opt II was the only other counting system I found with a negative index in this situation.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying the situation for me. I appreciate it.

[pat]

> I'm wondering why the index for this
> scenario is -1. Apart from Hi Opt II, I
> haven't found any other counting system yet
> where 7's vs 8 in a DAS situation is a
> negative number.

> Could someone enlighten me on this
> situation, as the index implies that basic
> strategy would be to split 7's vs 8 in DAS.
its GREAT cover on dd.when it comes up,make sure to call the floorperson over so she can laugh at you.you wont get heat the rest of the night.it is a basic strategy play on dd.

[Alan]

You're right. I was playing the other night, and I had other people betting on my spot with me, and I was thinking, "these people are going to kill me".

That's why I wanted to check it out, just to be sure. I'd always taken for granted till then.

[Moose]

.. since they could just refuse to make the partner split, and for free, their hand of 14 gets turned into a hand of 7, which according to BJmath.com on a 2D H17 DAS game, saves them at LEAST 17%, as 77 vs 8 is worth -0.38 and a two-card 7 (which is probably a fair bit worse than a one-card 7) is worth -0.21

Of course, you could have tried explaining that to them and they'd probably still hate you for it.

Related story:

One of the few times I've ever backbet was on a woman who was playing almost perfect basic (in earlier hands, she doubled soft 18 against a stiff and hit 12 vs a 2) except she didn't use surrender. Sure enough, on a big hand behind her, she gets 88 vs a ten, and while I'm busy surrendering my other hand, the lady goes to split her 8s.

Now, one thing local pit bosses are very anal about with counters is making sure you don't try and "play people's hands" for them, especially when you backbet. So, while the lady is saying to me "I hope you don't mind that I don't surrender", the pit boss gives me a stern look and says "He doesn't mind at all, *does he*?"

"As long as she doesn't mind that I don't split along with her." Sure enough, "my" eight gets a 3, we double and get 21, and the pit boss strutted off triumphant that I didn't "try and influence this person's play".

It's rare when everyone can win..

M.