I'm sure 6:5 bj odds are not good, but can a counter at least play with a positive expectation? Just wondering since my non-counter friends often drag me to casinos where that's about the only game offered and I'd like to do something more entertaining (that hopefully won't cost me money) than watch them play pai gow poker.
> I'm sure 6:5 bj odds are not good, but can a
> counter at least play with a positive
> expectation?
NO! Forget about it! Starting disadvantage is almost 1.5%.
Don
Stanford Wong calculates the house edge on a 6:5 game with otherwise good rules (H17, DOA, DAS) to be a whopping 1.45%
Furthermore, since a blackjack is of less value, your advantage will not increase as rapidly as the count goes up.
You'd be better off at even the worst 8 deck shoe (assuming it has a normal BJ payout).
Hell, you'd be better off learning to play Pai Gow! :-)
> I'm sure 6:5 bj odds are not good, but can a
> counter at least play with a positive
> expectation? Just wondering since my
> non-counter friends often drag me to casinos
> where that's about the only game offered and
> I'd like to do something more entertaining
> (that hopefully won't cost me money) than
> watch them play pai gow poker.
I mean, I'd like to think that people can't *POSSIBLY* be that stupid, but they're just lapping it up. At least Super Fun 21 you had a shot..
Might this be the future of single deck blackjack?
M.
I wonder how long this game can last with such a large edge over the player and a short compounding period. It seems to me that this game will be much like American Roulette, and will quickly lose any regular players by grinding them up to quickly. I bet a regular hunch player is losing in this game by 4%.
Leroy
...even then the games still sucks. You are much better off with a 1-40 spread ;^) You could Wong in at a Hi/Low TC=+4, where you finaly have an advantage. I'm assuming this game has S17, DA2, DAS, LS, N6:5, Pen 65%.
Leroy
.. probably because someone, somewhere, some beancounter ran a sim and said "OH MY GOD, THIS GAME IS THEORETICALLY BEATABLE! TIGHTEN THE SCREWS!", while forgetting to note that bottle-picking would be theoretically more beatable.
M.
> I'm assuming this
> game has S17, DA2, DAS, LS, N6:5, Pen 65%.
You're assuming too much. Most of these games are H17, DA2, DAS, no surrender. A few are even D10-11 only. And pen is typically Rule of 6.
Of course, on one here is ever going to try to play this game, but I thought I'd see what it would take to beat it, out of curiosity. The Wong-in point using basic Hi/Low is still TC=+4.
Rules: N1:1, H17, DA2, DAS, RO6. Heads-up, play-all, spreading $10 to $300 the player actually got an edge. LOL!
Leroy
The reason I avoided shoes at these places is because I didn't want to risk 8 units on a single hand (I recently got laid off and need to watch the cash - anyone need a computer programmer :-). Every text I read assumes you are at least spreading from 1-8 units if you are playing shoes. If I only vary my bets from 1-4 units, what are my aproximate odds when playing 6 or 8 deck shoes (not back counting)? I know this isn't the way to get rich, but if I at least have a small edge, it seems like it may not be a bad way to waste some time and throw down a couple beers while waiting for my friends to finish playing their Pai Gow. But I don't want to throw my money away if I'm at a disadvantage when only spreading from 1-4.
> Stanford Wong calculates the house edge on a
> 6:5 game with otherwise good rules (H17,
> DOA, DAS) to be a whopping 1.45%
> Furthermore, since a blackjack is of less
> value, your advantage will not increase as
> rapidly as the count goes up.
> You'd be better off at even the worst 8 deck
> shoe (assuming it has a normal BJ payout).
> Hell, you'd be better off learning to play
> Pai Gow! :-)
Well, you're certainly not going to beat (or even come close to break-even) a 6:5 BJ game with a 1-4 spread.
Fun with BJRM 2000:
A 1-4 play-all spread on a 6 deck shoe game with good rules (S17, DAS, LS) and mediocre pen (4.5/6) produces a whopping SCORE of $9.55, but it is indeed a positive expectiation.
With less favorable rules, (H17, DAS, no surrender) and the same pen, you need a 1-5 spread to just barely come out ahead, with a score of $1.50
Obviously, better pen would dramatically improve these numbers.
An 8 deck shoe will need at least a 1-6 spread, unless you have exceptional rules and/or pen.
You could also inprove these numbers by using whatever excuse you can (weak bladder, etc) to avoid playing as many negative hands as possible, thereby increasing your effective spread.
Or learn to play Pai Gow. :-)
> The reason I avoided shoes at these places
> is because I didn't want to risk 8 units on
> a single hand (I recently got laid off and
> need to watch the cash - anyone need a
> computer programmer :-). Every text I read
> assumes you are at least spreading from 1-8
> units if you are playing shoes. If I only
> vary my bets from 1-4 units, what are my
> aproximate odds when playing 6 or 8 deck
> shoes (not back counting)? I know this isn't
> the way to get rich, but if I at least have
> a small edge, it seems like it may not be a
> bad way to waste some time and throw down a
> couple beers while waiting for my friends to
> finish playing their Pai Gow. But I don't
> want to throw my money away if I'm at a
> disadvantage when only spreading from 1-4.
> NO! Forget about it! Starting disadvantage
> is almost 1.5%.
It is almost 1.4% (1.395%).
Sincerely,
Cacarulo
The Wong-in point using basic
> Hi/Low is still TC=+4.
Most of the 6-5 BJ games I've seen don't even allow Wonging (no mid-deck entry).
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