Cavorting with the poker players

**Tarzan** · 03-02-2012, 04:05 AM

I had the opportunity to hang out with a couple of professional, semi-professional, whatever the heck they are poker players that play poker full time and roam about poker rooms all over. To have an in depth conversation with them was interesting to say the least. These guys talked at length about their lifestyle roaming about the poker rooms and talked of their various exploits. It became obvious that these guys (who are young, single guys in their 20's) truly live on the edge and experience ROR on a given bank that would be ridiculous and out of the question to a professional blackjack player but then again these guys have no real responsibilities as of yet in their life. They are essentially homeless and live in the casino hotels for up to $150 a day or so, the poker players room rate at some casinos. They go from "living large" to scraping bottom at the drop of a hat and right back again from what they were saying about it all. They come off as somewhat crazy and adventurous but obviously they also put considerable effort into it all. They will be in the main event at the WSOP and I wish them the best of luck.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 03-02-2012, 05:46 AM

The two most curious things are the absurdly high rate of mental illness
and substance abuse among these denizens of the Poker Underworld.

**21forme** · 03-02-2012, 06:07 AM

Unlike BJ APs, many poker pros seem to be gamblers, including the "big guys" with the constant TV exposure.

**BookerPA** · 03-02-2012, 06:29 AM

I agree 1000% with the assessment of the three previous posters. I personally know one of these individuals who left college after winning approximately 3.5 million six years ago in a televised tournament. The last report I had concerning him, about a year ago, he was seen in AC on the boardwalk fighting the seagulls for frenchfries. With my experience in "Sports Accounting", the majority can be described as degenerate gamblers, will bet on anything. They live a "feast or famine" existence.

I've been described as being "highly eccentric", but compared to the poker players I've had exposure to, I'm flying a subcompact space vehicle and they are in top-of-the-line machines with intergalactic capabilities, truly out there, way out there.

KJ · 03-02-2012, 07:03 AM

I have a 'professional' poker player friend who's lifestyle is very similar to that of what Tarzan describes, although I don't think he spends many nights in $150 rooms. Good nights are just standard comped rooms for him, usually in one of the lower end Evil Empire properties like imperial palace or Harrah's. Rio is about as high end as he gets. The low end is sleeping in his car or occasionally my sofa. At times he supplements his poker career with selling water on the Las Vegas BLVD overpass and he has at times been a gondola boat pusher over at Venetian. Giving blood several times a month is also a part of his continuing efforts to raise a bankroll.

It amazes me how different the mindset of a 'professional' poker player and a professional BJ/advantage player are. I struggled early in my BJ career, averaging only about 10 grand for my first 3 years while playing crappy 8 deck nickle games, but I had a permanent home and knew where I would be laying my head each night. I was homeless and lived in a shelter for 3 months back in high school and I can tell you there is no worse feeling than the unstability of that. I can't imagine choosing to live like this. They must have some kind of greater inner strength than I.

**Bella** · 03-02-2012, 09:10 AM

How does one calculate an EV in poker except by playing and recording something on the order of 2000 hrs of play, review the results and then
try to figure out where one can improve...then playing another 2000 hrs...and so on...and so on. I just think most poker player go into the game
with their eyes wide shut. They think they can make a living doing it because they beat the home games or initially get slapped in the face with the
deck in the casino. Then the reality of the fluctuatiions jumps up and kicks them in the groin and they're left standing there holding their wee wee
wondering where all their money went and are never to be seen in the poker rooms again.

**zerg** · 03-02-2012, 10:01 AM

Poker players are really intriguing to me. If you go to any NL or PL table in America and ask a random player how they do overall there is a good chance they will tell you they make money. The next most likely response is that they break even. Probably 1 in 10 people would look you in the eye, tell you they are a "professional" poker player and truly believe it. The norm in the poker world is to be completely delusional about your results. I have sat at 1-2NL tables where every player at the table thinks they are a professional, thinks they are the best player at the table, and thinks they are currently making $x/hour.

Then there is how they look at cards and odds. A poker player is heads up in a pot. He is a 40% underdog preflop. Catches a card on the turn and becomes a 80% favorite. Then the river comes and he loses. It is not at all unusual for this player, who thinks he is a professional, to begin to spout complaints about his terrible luck. He will say things like "unbelievable" and "every *#!@ing time" and truly believe that he is cursed.

**Gamblor** · 03-02-2012, 11:19 AM

I used to play poker a fair amount before BJ, and played a break even game. Once I started APing other games, it actually made me a better poker player, strangely enough. Its primarily due to the fact that if its not a good game in poker, I always have the option of playing something else or just wile away my time at the poker tables (which is sometimes my intent because of my other AP activities). Otherwise at best you are playing a break even game playing at a table full of other decent players.

As far as variance goes, trust me, the variance and swoons in CCing is much more than cash poker games. I would imagine variance is pretty crazy if you play a lot of tournaments though, almost like VP waiting around for the royal.

**OGBasher** · 03-03-2012, 12:05 PM

I think live pros are known more for these antics than online pros.

**Ouchez** · 03-03-2012, 07:36 PM

I have found Poker to be a real tripped out experience. You never know what you will run into at the tables, character, personality, style wise, and few have the discipline that a Hi-Level BJ AP has.

I find it very easy to mind fu#k these degenerates and HCing sure doesn't stop at Carny and BJ games.

Ouchez

**RWM** · 03-04-2012, 09:41 AM

My friends and I really thought it ridiculous and ironic that poker players became the rock stars of the gambling world. To the pros that I know poker players were considered the bottom of the barrel of professional gamblers. Many of them were driving cabs half the time because they were broke and trying to find their next backer. Many of those you see on TV are not winning players. In the 70s and 80s cheating happened all the time and many of those old timers thought nothing of setting up and screwing over their friends. If interested look at the Cat Hulbert interview in Gambling Wizards where she talks about the difference in the people when she moved from the blackjack world into poker.

**Hsiaodi** · 03-04-2012, 10:05 PM

I think it'll be interesting to ask josh a. Some of these questions. Didn't he go from bj ap to online poker player and then joined ga?
Would be an interesting chat.....