The seriously advanced cardcounters who sidecounts 6,7,8 seperately.

[Three]

Probably most serious advanced counters don't side count. It's not worth much.

If I recall the chats correctly Rainman side counted all the middle cards. From Rainman Chat:

Rainman: "used the HO II with individual sides 9,8,7,6,5 and Ace for MP adjustments."

This was how he got his nickname exploiting good pitch games using 6 individual side counts with HO II.

[Three]

If any side counts could have "huge" effect, they'd have been included in the main count.

The main count is for betting. The side counts with the exception of the ace are for playing accurately so you win a higher percentage of hands. If you can't understand that very basic concept you have a lot to learn.

[zengrifter]

User is banned, content deleted.

[KJ]

Chang and Tthree disagree.

I am not surprised by Tthree's position. I don't mean this negatively. Tthree seems to be a big beleiver in squeezing out every last cent of advantage, at least on paper (or computer). Side counts, with the exception of Aces, for obvious reasons, and just what they are worth is almost an extention of the higher level count discussions. These things just aren't worth that much in the big picture. Sure worth a little more in handheld games and deeply dealt games, but still overall not that significant. To me chasing these last few cents like this is just that....chasing pennies when you should be chasing dollars. I personally agree with this quote by Solo.

I just don't understand why anyone would want to spend so much time and effort side counting 6s, 7s, and 8s. Your time would be much better spent learning some other way to gain an edge inside a casino.

[Three]

Nothing has stopped me from learning other ways to gain an edge in a casino. When you learned to crawl did it syop you from learning to walk? When you learned to ride a bike did it stop you from learning to fly a plane?

[chang04133]

The extra gain by using Sidecounting worths more

[truthiness]

The main count is for betting. The side counts with the exception of the ace are for playing accurately so you win a higher percentage of hands. If you can't understand that very basic concept you have a lot to learn.

That aside, all I ask is how much is the gain from side count. Again, pick a matchup and tell me the amount of gain using side count vs no side count. Use numbers please.

[truthiness]

The extra gain by using Sidecounting worths more

You have numbers to show?

[zengrifter]

User is banned, content deleted.

[blackjack avenger]

Does keeping 2 counts double your win rate? No
It's diminishing returns.

Do the games available now highlight the strengths of side counts? No

[chang04133]

I have nothing to say, especially to Zg. Why I find the data and show it to you?

[ZenKinG]

I am not surprised by Tthree's position. I don't mean this negatively. Tthree seems to be a big beleiver in squeezing out every last cent of advantage, at least on paper (or computer). Side counts, with the exception of Aces, for obvious reasons, and just what they are worth is almost an extention of the higher level count discussions. These things just aren't worth that much in the big picture. Sure worth a little more in handheld games and deeply dealt games, but still overall not that significant. To me chasing these last few cents like this is just that....chasing pennies when you should be chasing dollars. I personally agree with this quote by Solo.

Agreed, but chang is doing this for cover purposes i believe.. Forget side counts and learn hi lo or halves with as many indices as you can.. end of discussion

[truthiness]

I have nothing to say, especially to Zg. Why I find the data and show it to you?

Because empty talks cannot convince anyone. What's the big secret about a number? I bet you don't have it.