How does a Pro handle his BR?

[njrich]

Let me preface this by saying i am just curious i don't have the BR or experience to even think of it.
If a pro doesn't have a replenishable BR what percentage should he use for living and expenses while also building his BR i'm thinking 60% BR 40% the rest in a perfect ap world?

[WRX]

There are old threads on various sites on the subject of Kelly betting on a bankroll that is drawn on for payment of expenses. Your message does not pose the question precisely. You need to specify considerable additional information.

[blackjack avenger]

Defining pro as someone who gets all of income from play and the bank cannot be replaced easily.

They probably play at such a small fraction of Kelly that reasonable expenses hardly matter.

[njrich]

Thank You T three!
Maybe my op should have been more specific.
The mindset of a pro needs to be much different than a 9 to 5er and even a part timer.
I was hoping to start a thread that would give me better insight into that.
I know i know i should have just asked outright.

[blackjack avenger]

There is a problem with setting money aside. The money is not in play, that cash can be used to generate income to pay the bills or to lower Kelly fraction.

For a pro all money is in play. If they lose a lot are they not going to dip in the expense funds? Most likely they will or stop playing.

[KJ]

There is a problem with setting money aside. The money is not in play, that cash can be used to generate income to pay the bills or to lower Kelly fraction.

For a pro all money is in play. If they lose a lot are they not going to dip in the expense funds? Most likely they will or stop playing.

My friend Kim Lee, thinks exactly the way you do Avenger. He counts all assets, including home as his bankroll. I just can't do that. At the first chance that I was able, I started setting aside funds for a period of living expenses. It wasn't a year at first, just 3 or 4 months and then 6 months. I am now able to do so yearly. This allowed me to not take money from my BR during negative runs. Even though all my funds were coming from the same place, separating out living expenses reduces psychological stress of taking money from an already shrinking BR. Some may view this as nonsense, maybe a weakness, as the money is all coming from the same place, but I find it a little more comforting.

[AP360]

My friend Kim Lee, thinks exactly the way you do Avenger. He counts all assets, including home as his bankroll. I just can't do that. At the first chance that I was able, I started setting aside funds for a period of living expenses. It wasn't a year at first, just 3 or 4 months and then 6 months. I am now able to do so yearly. This allowed me to not take money from my BR during negative runs. Even though all my funds were coming from the same place, separating out living expenses reduces psychological stress of taking money from an already shrinking BR. Some may view this as nonsense, maybe a weakness, as the money is all coming from the same place, but I find it a little more comforting.

There is a problem with setting money aside. The money is not in play, that cash can be used to generate income to pay the bills or to lower Kelly fraction.

For a pro all money is in play. If they lose a lot are they not going to dip in the expense funds? Most likely they will or stop playing.

I could understand both schools of thought mentioned above, albeit, one for psychological reasons while the other for practical ones. I could also chalk them up to short-term vs. long-term as in the short term, I might like to have a sense of "security" by setting aside "x" amount of $$ living expenses, just in case... while long-term, might I run into an extended negative swing, I would definitely tap into those funds previously set aside as I wouldn't want to tap-out.

[njrich]

Playing at that level(pro lifestyle not skill) i'm sure some of you guys are just as good.
The stress must be unreal beside all the research,travel planning,dealing with jet lag BR swings the heat generated just to name a few things you have to deal with and if your doing it solo it has to be a tough way to live.
I guess it take a very special type of person to do it.

[Ouchez]

My friend Kim Lee, thinks exactly the way you do Avenger.

KJ,

Do you mean the "Honorable Kim Lee"??? ( I hope my Friend "Paddywhack" joins in as he would have much to add regarding this topic).

I would say that I have spent much of my BR over the years on my kids and toys, and continue too, and I have no regrets for doing so.

Best,
Ouchez

[blackjack avenger]

My friend Kim Lee, thinks exactly the way you do Avenger. He counts all assets, including home as his bankroll. I just can't do that. At the first chance that I was able, I started setting aside funds for a period of living expenses. It wasn't a year at first, just 3 or 4 months and then 6 months. I am now able to do so yearly. This allowed me to not take money from my BR during negative runs. Even though all my funds were coming from the same place, separating out living expenses reduces psychological stress of taking money from an already shrinking BR. Some may view this as nonsense, maybe a weakness, as the money is all coming from the same place, but I find it a little more comforting.

With the house:
Are you willing to take out a loan against its value?
If not willing you can't consider it.

As far as setting money aside for expenses.
What if someone took a crippling loss and they have a yrs worth of expenses set aside. From that point forward to not dip into the savings will increase chances for failure.

Now would be a good time for someone to bang a gong and rant on betting a very small fraction of Kelly.

[KJ]

With the house:
Are you willing to take out a loan against its value?
If not willing you can't consider it.

As far as setting money aside for expenses.
What if someone took a crippling loss and they have a yrs worth of expenses set aside. From that point forward to not dip into the savings will increase chances for failure.

Now would be a good time for someone to bang a gong and rant on betting a very small fraction of Kelly.

Yes, money set a side for living expenses, loan against real estate, funds set aside for retirement (which I am just beginning), would all be in play if things went disastrously for me. They all are 'extra security'. The idea for me, is too build these 'extra securities' while still playing to a BR (funds set aside exclusively for playing) at a tiny fraction of Kelly. I am getting closer to that level. But a major negative swing, such that I am currently in, tends to remind you that you aren't as close to a true comfort level as you think.

No need to bang the gong and rant about small Kelly fraction. You do that enough for all of us. It goes without saying that you want to get to the tiniest fraction of Kelly as quickly as you can. Unfortunately, most of us start out, with no where near the funds needed, so we all play underfunded while we navigate that road and hope we don't get picked off along the way. But a tiny fraction of Kelly, should be the destination point for everyone.

[Goatlife]

wow this thread is money.... @kj I think I have read someone that you have found a level of playing your comfortable with and that the casinos are comfortable with. The way I process this information is that if your not planning to up your stakes there really is only so much cash you need to have in a liquid bankroll.. since my train of thought comes from the investment business my personal goal is to build a bankroll to about 250k (im not there yet) and keep it liquid and then once a year take the profits and invest it (KJ you might want to look into a SEP ACCOUNT for your retirement depending on how you file your taxes... it will lower your taxable income and help you save for retirement.. you'll pay taxes on the money when you withdraw it on retirement but you won't pay taxes along the way). I feel that I am at a level now that I can't really go higher enless I learn some new tricks or get into team play at some point in the future.. but as for being solo, this is only so much I can buy in for and cash out if you get my drift and play becomes difficult enough as it is especially in isolated casinos u are spending some time at.

[KJ]

KJ,

Do you mean the "Honorable Kim Lee"???
Best,
Ouchez

Ouchez, I have no idea what makes Kim Lee so honorable? You have referred to him in such a manner for as long as I can remember. I am not saying that he is not honorable. I just have no idea. Did he run into a burning village and save all the school children? Is he up for saint-hood? I'll bet the casino industry doesn't think he is so honorable.