I spelled it correctly, but then auto correct changed it to YankeeOriginally Posted by 21forme
Is there a spelling error here, or are you writing American?
It's incredible how ridiculous this statement is. I've seen a dealer cheating, at a large casino in the United States. I've seen lots of cheating in poker games. If I can see it, it's detectable. This stuff is common internationally, which is what we're discussing. That's not even controversial.
There have been criminal rings that were successfully prosecuted for cheating. This was a group of dozens of people going into casinos all over the country. And it included recruiting dealers who were in on the scams:
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/cas...ing-dismantled
Nor is this isolated:
https://www.eaglecountryonline.com/n...ackjack-poker/
https://www.casino.org/news/maryland...eating-scheme/
This is fairly common in the United States, and even more common internationally. You falsely imply that it's impossible because anyone who would try to cheat would use an extremely sophisticated method to do it. That's definitely not true. There are casinos that just don't care. And there are individual dealers who cheat because they're dumping money to someone else, and they don't want to get detected because their hold is off. These are the ones that are most likely to use less sophisticated methods to cheat.
Why does this bother me so much? Because you're telling APs not to bother learning how to protect themselves! Even if some of this stuff is difficult to detect, that doesn't mean it's impossible. And that doesn't mean you can't detect the less sophisticated stuff.
Stop posting dangerous misinformation.
The Cash Cow.
No I did not say or imply that.
You wrote earlier in the thread "Do you know how to spot marked cards? There are a lot of ways to do this, and APs should know all of them."
I responded "That isn't possible." It isn't.
Here is a testimonial from a cheating expert https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gambling-with-an-edge/marked-cards-in-casinos/
"There is little or no quality information on the art and science of marked cards. There is also no easy way to discuss the subject intelligently without writing a book. Let me just say that I have seen marking systems that were infinitely more sophisticated....
Everything from IR phosphors that were “read” with lasers, optic systems that utilized a combination of both contacts and glasses, daubs that oxidized after a period of time and shade that required hundreds of hours of practice training the muscle of the eye to see the marks, and I’m just touching the surface. Quite frankly, if the cards were “professionally marked,” we would all still be looking for the work."
Put simply marked cards can be and are marked using methods not in the public domain. An AP cannot fully protect themselves by learning about cheating techniques.
"Why does this bother me so much? Because you're telling APs not to bother learning how to protect themselves"
No I did not say that. I wrote "It is probably a good idea to look at the simpler forms of cheating but don't kid yourself this will protect you from everything".
In actuality AP should learn the basics of how marked cards and other cheating scams work but most of time they will be unable to detect physical evidence of cheating. They should also learn how to detect cheating statistically and also make an assessment based on the character jurisdiction and general professionalism of a casino. They should limit exposure to one operation. It isn't as simple as reading lots of books on cheating.
Last edited by Archvaldor; 04-27-2024 at 01:12 AM.
Your claim that it is impossible for APs to catch cheating involving marked cards is both false and dangerous. You were refuted on this point, and retreated to claiming that you were right because some of it is difficult or impossible to detect. That doesn't in any way make your earlier claim correct or not dangerous. Some of it is detectable, and APs should know how to detect it.
Furthermore, even if you can't catch the marks, you can still catch the second dealing.
The Cash Cow.
I'm sure that happens a lot on the internet, but that has nothing to do with my motivation here. People post these things and when they don't get corrected, other people read them, and it becomes "common knowledge." There's a lot of "common knowledge" on the subject of cheating that is totally false. People think American casinos never cheat. That's ridiculous, they cheat all the time. They don't mark decks that often, but they'll deny payouts, steal chips, rig drawings, and lie to law enforcement in an attempt to get law enforcement to steal from the patron. But individual dealers definitely do cheat. I've posted a number of examples of that, and I've observed it personally.
This isn't some unimportant topic, either. I would suggest that anyone who is serious about advantage play should get very familiar with cheating techniques, because it definitely happens. Especially in the poker room and in international casinos. I've seen all kinds of cheating in poker rooms.
Archvaldor posted a claim that was just completely, totally wrong. He said it "isn't possible" to detect cheating by a casino. That's just wrong. Not only that, but it was dismissive of information that was correct and useful to APs. Go back and look at the thread. I was giving detailed information about a specific situation, and he just poo poos it away. People read that kind of comment and think "Oh, maybe I don't actually need to bother learning how cheating can happen." That's why it's dangerous and needs to be addressed.
You don't tolerate this kind of crap when it comes to people posting nonsense like "card counting doesn't work" or telling people they have to use Hi Opt II with 3 side counts to make money. I've seen you absolutely go off on people. And they deserved it, because they were persisting in posting misinformation even after being corrected.
The Cash Cow.
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