can someone give advices for Spanish 21?

**J_Mirror** · 04-11-2024, 06:05 PM

I have mastered the Halves System, my counting speed can be less than 20 sec per 52 cards. And I feel easy to handle casino games even with fast dealer.

Now I have bought Katarina Walker's book to progress to the mastery of Spanish 21. However I found this book only addresses the Hi-lo system, and doesn't give a guide to adapt my Halves to using on Spanish 21.

I have never, and don't want to practice the Hi-lo since I believe it can impair my mastery of the Halves. So can I adapt the Halves to Spanish 21 without adjusting the assigned values to the cards, and only by memorizing a new index chart? If yes, how should I do it? What materials or tools can I use to learn, or recalibrate and generate a set of new indices? Or if I do have to make some small change to the assigned value, how can I assess the value of each card and make the change?

I am new to playing blackjack, I have never tried a software or anything alike. I appreciate if anyone can address my question in details. Learning the Hi-lo can be my last choice but I want to avoid it as much as I can.

Thank you guys!

**Freightman** · 04-11-2024, 06:23 PM

Halves is essentially ho lo on steroids. Indexes are virtually identical, though index numbers for Spanishare different that hi lo - halves. Having said that, as you’re new to blackjack, master 1 game at a time before you start another game.

**J_Mirror** · 04-11-2024, 06:39 PM

Thx! I believe I have already mastered the traditional BJ by repetitive playing in the casino. Indices of Hi-lo & Halves are not identical, only similar. The main advantage of halves is its superior accuracy on estimating advantage for each hand. I understand the playing efficiency has minor differences between Hi-lo & Halves, it's just that I don't want to bother learning the hi-lo with damage to my existing mastery of the Halves.

Originally Posted by Freightman

Halves is essentially ho lo on steroids. Indexes are virtually identical, though index numbers for Spanishare different that hi lo - halves. Having said that, as you’re new to blackjack, master 1 game at a time before you start another game.

**Freightman** · 04-11-2024, 06:53 PM

Indices of Hi-lo & Halves are not identical, only similar.

Virtually exact. Insurance is the only difference of any consequence.

The main advantage of halves is its superior accuracy on estimating advantage for each hand.

Not only on measuring advantage, but also measuring disadvantage

. I understand the playing efficiency has minor differences between Hi-lo & Halves

Not so minor. Hi lo actually has a higher PE than halves. Off the top of my head .56 (halves) and .63 (hi lo). They’re ways of bumping up PE on halves. Halves is a great shoe system.

Retreat Katarina’s book. BTW, I’m a Halves expert

**J_Mirror** · 04-11-2024, 07:08 PM

Oh thx but could you explain why you suggest retreat the Spanish 21 book?
I live in a large city and it's casino poor here. I have to drive for 1 hour to visit a local casino which has good rules (S17, DAS, etc.) I value this casino and do not want to get backed off even though it continues to show hospitality after I have been frequenting it and counting & wonging explicitly for a while. I in return introduce more friends & customers to the casino.
I feel learning Spanish 21 is important to me, as its frequent play is much easier to be welcome given my lack of access to different casinos.

Originally Posted by Freightman

Virtually exact. Insurance is the only difference of any consequence.

Not only on measuring advantage, but also measuring disadvantage

Not so minor. Hi lo actually has a higher PE than halves. Off the top of my head .56 (halves) and .63 (hi lo). They’re ways of bumping up PE on halves. Halves is a great shoe system.

Retreat Katarina’s book. BTW, I’m a Halves expert

**Freightman** · 04-11-2024, 07:26 PM

Meant to write - reread

**J_Mirror** · 04-11-2024, 07:33 PM

oh reread the book? haha I just got it and started to read from the beginning.

Originally Posted by Freightman

Meant to write - reread

**DSchles** · 04-12-2024, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Freightman

Hi lo actually has a higher PE than halves. Off the top of my head .56 (halves) and .63 (hi lo).

No, I'm sorry, that's not true. Maybe you're thinking of Hi-Opt I. PEs are: Hi-Lo, 55.6; Halves, 59.4; Hi-Opt I, 66.9.

Don

**Freightman** · 04-12-2024, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by DSchles

No, I'm sorry, that's not true. Maybe you're thinking of Hi-Opt I. PEs are: Hi-Lo, 55.6; Halves, 59.4; Hi-Opt I, 66.9.

Don

the numbers you quoted are close enough. You are correct that hi lo has lower PE than halves. I was think8n* of someth8ng Kelsey.

**moo321** · 04-12-2024, 09:45 AM

Halves isn't a good system for Spanish 21. The effect of removing the 7 is a a lot less than in regular blackjack, and the effect of removing the 9 is about half. So the 7 and 9 are overweighted. The effect of removing the 8 is actually higher than the 9, due to the 6-7-8 bonus.

The effect of removing an ace is much higher than in regular blackjack. So, the counts with the highest betting correlation tend to put more emphasis on the ace.

That said, there are a lot more relevant indexes for Spanish 21, so that a count with a strong playing efficiency can compete with a count with a stronger betting efficiency. Counting the ace really heavy for betting tends to mess up your playing decisions. So, Walker's Hi Lo unbalanced is about as good as the Secret Monkey count (Hi Lo, except the ace is -2) in a lot of scenarios.

All of that said, Halves should still get the money on Spanish 21. And if you don't want to use a different count to not mess up your main count, you can get Norm's software and run the indexes for it.

**J_Mirror** · 04-12-2024, 12:17 PM

Thank you! Sounds like learning the Hi-lo is a decent choice for me.

Originally Posted by moo321

Halves isn't a good system for Spanish 21. The effect of removing the 7 is a a lot less than in regular blackjack, and the effect of removing the 9 is about half. So the 7 and 9 are overweighted. The effect of removing the 8 is actually higher than the 9, due to the 6-7-8 bonus.

The effect of removing an ace is much higher than in regular blackjack. So, the counts with the highest betting correlation tend to put more emphasis on the ace.

That said, there are a lot more relevant indexes for Spanish 21, so that a count with a strong playing efficiency can compete with a count with a stronger betting efficiency. Counting the ace really heavy for betting tends to mess up your playing decisions. So, Walker's Hi Lo unbalanced is about as good as the Secret Monkey count (Hi Lo, except the ace is -2) in a lot of scenarios.

All of that said, Halves should still get the money on Spanish 21. And if you don't want to use a different count to not mess up your main count, you can get Norm's software and run the indexes for it.

**moo321** · 04-12-2024, 12:20 PM

If you've already learned Halves, you could just not count the 7 and 9 on Spanish 21, and it would be a much better count without changing your existing game too much.

I think that's part of the appeal of the Secret Monkey Count. It's just Hi Lo with the Ace counted as -2, so it works for a lot of Hi Lo players.

**J_Mirror** · 04-12-2024, 12:44 PM

Thx! I'm willing to learn the Hi-lo if the adjusted halves on Spanish 21 is less effective than the hi-lo in terms of winning money!

Originally Posted by moo321

If you've already learned Halves, you could just not count the 7 and 9 on Spanish 21, and it would be a much better count without changing your existing game too much.

I think that's part of the appeal of the Secret Monkey Count. It's just Hi Lo with the Ace counted as -2, so it works for a lot of Hi Lo players.