Full Early Surrender Deviations

[Freightman]

Guess I'm not following. If there is no hole card, what, exactly, is the dealer peeking (note spelling!!) at??

Don

My bad - should have been “Hole card peak.

[Freightman]

Isn't surrender after peek likely late surrender?

yes

By the way it doesn't matter when dealer checks for blackjack relative to surrender. What matters is what happens if dealer has BJ. If player surrenders and loses half his bet whether dealer has BJ or not that is equivalent to early surrender. If player surrenders and loses half his bet when dealer doesn't have BJ and loses his full bet when dealer has BJ, that is equivalent to late surrender.

Agreed

If ENHC any splits and doubles are at risk to lose to dealer BJ. If OBO only original bet is at risk and extra bets due to splits and doubles if made would be "rebated" if dealer has BJ. So OBO in a no hole card game could make for a lot of extra work for the dealer.

Yup

[DSchles]

My bad - should have been “Hole card peak.

No, should have been "hole card peEk."

Don

[fullearlysurrender]

You cannot double after splitting aa. If dealer ends up with blackjack you lose all of your additional bets with the exception of splitted aa (only lose one bet). Apologies for not making this clear from the start. Late surrender is not available, only full early surrender.

[k_c]

You cannot double after splitting aa. If dealer ends up with blackjack you lose all of your additional bets with the exception of splitted aa (only lose one bet). Apologies for not making this clear from the start. Late surrender is not available, only full early surrender.

I think gain from losing only original bet rather than lose all is for split A-A once = ~.0251%

6 decks, H17, SPL3, DAS, SPLA1, HSA, NDASA, surr V 2-9, ES10, ESA, ENHC
EV = ~.1667%

Split A-A once versus all up cards if ENHC: EV = +59.03%
Split A-A once versus all up cards if OBO: EV = +63.44%
Gain for split A-A once if OBO instead of ENHC = 24/312*23/311 * (63.44%-59.03%) = .0251%

EV if ENHC = + .1667%
EV if ENHC except OBO for split aces once = .1918%

k_c

[James989]

1. South America
2. No hole card peek

No ENHC

What is the exact difference between ENHC and NHC ? Please help to explain it clearly.

NHC exactly 100% same as Peek ?

NHC = OBO = Peek ? Very confusing . . .

[Freightman]

What is the exact difference between ENHC and NHC ? Please help to explain it clearly.

NHC exactly 100% same as Peek ?

NHC = OBO = Peek ? Very confusing . . .

There is no peek - oops - let me check Schlesingers grammatical dictionary - okay, there is no peeking in a NHC or ENHC game as there is no hole card.

No Hole Card = NHC. Against dealer blackjack, OBO or Original Bets Only are lost against dealer BJ. In other words, max split all doubled - only the original net is lost. With dealer upcard ace, all hands are resolved, subject to OBO are resolved before dealer takes his second card.

European No Hole Card - all doubles and splits are lost against dealer BJ.

Hole card games are statistically marginally better than NHC games, but I prefer NHC games with a good dealer as there is no peeking (checked Schlesinger’s Grammatical Dictionary) and therefore faster with more hands per hour. The reason hole card games are statistically better is because hole card games preserve high true counts as the round stops immediately when dealer peeks and has BJ. Too many good cards are wasted in a NHC game as everyone plays their hand out.

ENHC - don’t double 10v10, 11 v10, 11vAce, split 88v10 or ace etc

[fullearlysurrender]

Caraculo, i bought your system and I was wondering at what indexes would you surrender 16, 15 and 14 vs 9. Anyone who kmows this with standard hi lo would be useful too.

[Cacarulo]

Caraculo, i bought your system and I was wondering at what indexes would you surrender 16, 15 and 14 vs 9. Anyone who kmows this with standard hi lo would be useful too.

Hi, the indices you're asking about are all in the document. I didn't understand the Hi-Lo part.

Sincerely,
Cac

[fullearlysurrender]

Meant to put vs 8 not 9

[fullearlysurrender]

Meant to put vs 8 not 9

Found it ty

[k_c]

Meant to put vs 8 not 9

6 decks HiLo Surrender ~indexes
16 v 8 >=4
15 v 8 >=7
14 v 8 >=12
13 v 8 >=20

k_c

[DSchles]

FWIW, we make 14 vs. 8 +13 in the book.

Don