Method of updating 2 counts and mixture of game types

[8675309]

Hi all, I have a couple of questions. For those using 2 counts at once do you update both counts simultaneously? For example, I use a level 2 count with A/5 sidecount and at a full table I update my base count and then glance back through to update the A/5 count. Heads up or just one other player then I try to update both counts at once.
Second question is about where I play there is a mixture of games at several different places. Some are hit soft 17 with no surrender, some are stand on soft 17 with no surrender and some are hit soft 17 with late surrender. Do you memorize the indices for hit soft 17 and stand soft 17 both and also for 2 decks vs 6 decks or do you memorize just one set of indices as a compromise?
It seems it would be very easy to confuse the indices between all of the various games.

[shadowfaxxhs]

Personally, I've tried this with an insurance count and hi-lo count. I found it to be an absolute nightmare if you are playing heads up and not worth the potential EV. However I have had great success with counting both LL/Hi-Lo on a full table (1/2deck pitch). I would see the cards for the first round and if the count for LL was high I would count it for the remained of the shoe, otherwise I would switch to hi-lo. Half the time, I would remember both counts after 1-2 rounds and switch to the better one. Basically you end up counting Hi-Lo (1/3) of the time and LL (1/3) of the time. Absolutely messes with surveillance and pitbosses.

For indices, I just learn the Illustrious18/Important indices for each game and utilise any other deviations I remember from previous study. If its something niche like doubling 8vs3, i would just ad an extra true count or 2 if I don't remember the exact indice for that specific version. That way I'm making no big mistakes and capitlising when the decision is right.

[LauraBlack]

Excuse my ignorance ... what's LL?

[Freightman]

Excuse my ignorance ... what's LL?

Lucky Ladies, very similar to Kings Bounty if you happen to know that - a beatable side game with a huge off the top house edge (exceeding 20%).

[moo321]

Personally, I've tried this with an insurance count and hi-lo count. I found it to be an absolute nightmare if you are playing heads up and not worth the potential EV. However I have had great success with counting both LL/Hi-Lo on a full table (1/2deck pitch). I would see the cards for the first round and if the count for LL was high I would count it for the remained of the shoe, otherwise I would switch to hi-lo. Half the time, I would remember both counts after 1-2 rounds and switch to the better one. Basically you end up counting Hi-Lo (1/3) of the time and LL (1/3) of the time. Absolutely messes with surveillance and pitbosses.

For indices, I just learn the Illustrious18/Important indices for each game and utilise any other deviations I remember from previous study. If its something niche like doubling 8vs3, i would just ad an extra true count or 2 if I don't remember the exact indice for that specific version. That way I'm making no big mistakes and capitlising when the decision is right.

If you want to play both the main blackjack and lucky ladies, use an ace neutral count, like Hi Opt I or II. Then side count the queen of hearts. You don't even need to side count the aces. The hourly rate on that is going to be a lot higher than trying to count one or the other after one hand.


Or just use Hi Lo and side count the queen of hearts.

[Freightman]

If you want to play both the main blackjack and lucky ladies, use an ace neutral count, like Hi Opt I or II. Then side count the queen of hearts. You don't even need to side count the aces. The hourly rate on that is going to be a lot higher than trying to count one or the other after one hand.


Or just use Hi Lo and side count the queen of hearts.

if you want to play simple - just tie your side LL bets to the True count - no muss, no fuss. Might not be as powerful as a specialized count, but it gets the money.

[Freightman]

If you want to play both the main blackjack and lucky ladies, use an ace neutral count, like Hi Opt I or II. Then side count the queen of hearts. You don't even need to side count the aces. The hourly rate on that is going to be a lot higher than trying to count one or the other after one hand.


Or just use Hi Lo and side count the queen of hearts.

Just side counting heart queen for an improbable result is inefficient - as I once discovered by side counting 9’s for the infrequent 12v2 at high true counts hitting bypassing the index of standing. There’s a few side counts I tie my true counts to - not as efficient as specialized counts, but certainly get the money.

An observation - right or wrong - people are using side counts to improve individual play decisions. Why not for betting decisions departing from optimal up or down based on my pet theory of QTC. Pretty darn efficient from my perspective.

As for insurance decisions - sure - side counting aces helps, but so does combining with counting surplus or deficit of intermediates - a powerful combination tied to ace reckoned counts.

[moo321]

Just side counting heart queen for an improbable result is inefficient

Playing lucky ladies and side-counting the queen of hearts is one of the rare situations where a weird side count is definitely worth it. This side count along with an insurance count doubles the gain from lucky ladies compared to Hi Lo.

https://www.888casino.com/blog/side-...kjack-side-bet

[Freightman]

Playing lucky ladies and side-counting the queen of hearts is one of the rare situations where a weird side count is definitely worth it. This side count along with an insurance count doubles the gain from lucky ladies compared to Hi Lo.

https://www.888casino.com/blog/side-...kjack-side-bet

When I say infrequent, I’m referring to the 1000-1 payout with player having 2-Qh with dealer blackjack. So, the first 4 cards must have player getting both heart queens and dealer getting blackjack. So, at double deck, the only variable is whether dealer gets ace or face on the 2nd or 4th cards.

2/104 x 8/103 x 1/102/ x 30/101 = 480/110355024 plus exact same odds if dealer cards are reversed or 1-1000 payout every 459812 hands. Don I’m sure will correct me if I’m wrong. I deem that to be infrequent not deserving of a specialized count - much easier handled by tying to true count (enhanced by QTC). Seems to me that my gambits are achieving similar hourlies counting - more or less depending on where I am in relation to home.

My game is complicated enough as it is - I’ll simplify and make a little extra easy money with no additional heart. True counts can be tied to other side bets where payoffs happen on both negative and positive counts.

[DSchles]

2/104 x 8/103 x 1/102/ x 30/101 = 480/110355024 plus exact same odds if dealer cards are reversed or 1-1000 payout every 459812 hands. Don I’m sure will correct me if I’m wrong.

Well, the multiplication is OK, provided you double it. Guess that's what you mean by "plus exact same odds if dealer cards are reversed." Normally, we just multiply by 2 and we're done with it. In any event, when we do that, we get 960/110355024. Then, dividing, we get once out of every 114,953 hands. So, after getting your first value, you went the wrong way with the doubled value. You had to make the probability of occurrence MORE frequent, not less. So, next time, double right away, in computing the dealer's probability of blackjack, and you won't get confused.

By the way, very sporting of the casino to pay 1,000 to 1 odds for something that happens once every 114,953 hands!! Sheesh! Can they afford it?

Don

[shadowfaxxhs]

This is a count for a single deck game with 2-3 rounds. So after the first round I change into either LL or Hi-Lo. This is because the LL requires a custom side count due to the paytable I simmed. 10s (-2), 2-9(+1), Qh(-6), 2ndQ(-2). Also If decide to go with LL, I increase by bet size anyway so I can bet more on the sidebet.

[Cacarulo]

Hi all, I have a couple of questions. For those using 2 counts at once do you update both counts simultaneously? For example, I use a level 2 count with A/5 sidecount and at a full table I update my base count and then glance back through to update the A/5 count. Heads up or just one other player then I try to update both counts at once.
Second question is about where I play there is a mixture of games at several different places. Some are hit soft 17 with no surrender, some are stand on soft 17 with no surrender and some are hit soft 17 with late surrender. Do you memorize the indices for hit soft 17 and stand soft 17 both and also for 2 decks vs 6 decks or do you memorize just one set of indices as a compromise?
It seems it would be very easy to confuse the indices between all of the various games.

A couple of quick responses: Like I mentioned before, it really boils down to each individual's mindset. If you struggle with keeping both counts in sync, you can utilize a stack of chips for the A/5 side count
and position it in two spots (left and right) on the table, depending on whether the secondary count is positive or negative.
Regarding the different games you might encounter in a casino, the ideal approach is to seek out the one that offers you the best SCORE (probably de one with LS).
What's the need to play them all and drive yourself crazy with different rules?

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Cac

[8675309]

A couple of quick responses: Like I mentioned before, it really boils down to each individual's mindset. If you struggle with keeping both counts in sync, you can utilize a stack of chips for the A/5 side count
and position it in two spots (left and right) on the table, depending on whether the secondary count is positive or negative.
Regarding the different games you might encounter in a casino, the ideal approach is to seek out the one that offers you the best SCORE (probably de one with LS).
What's the need to play them all and drive yourself crazy with different rules?

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Cac

Thanks.. by the way I'm doing very well using your system.
The reason I have played all of the games at different places is to try to spread my play around. Even with a regular job I have been playing 4-5 days a week and didn't want to wear out my welcome too fast if possible.