Method of updating 2 counts and mixture of game types

[8675309]

Hi all, I have a couple of questions. For those using 2 counts at once do you update both counts simultaneously? For example, I use a level 2 count with A/5 sidecount and at a full table I update my base count and then glance back through to update the A/5 count. Heads up or just one other player then I try to update both counts at once.
Second question is about where I play there is a mixture of games at several different places. Some are hit soft 17 with no surrender, some are stand on soft 17 with no surrender and some are hit soft 17 with late surrender. Do you memorize the indices for hit soft 17 and stand soft 17 both and also for 2 decks vs 6 decks or do you memorize just one set of indices as a compromise?
It seems it would be very easy to confuse the indices between all of the various games.

[shadowfaxxhs]

Personally, I've tried this with an insurance count and hi-lo count. I found it to be an absolute nightmare if you are playing heads up and not worth the potential EV. However I have had great success with counting both LL/Hi-Lo on a full table (1/2deck pitch). I would see the cards for the first round and if the count for LL was high I would count it for the remained of the shoe, otherwise I would switch to hi-lo. Half the time, I would remember both counts after 1-2 rounds and switch to the better one. Basically you end up counting Hi-Lo (1/3) of the time and LL (1/3) of the time. Absolutely messes with surveillance and pitbosses.

For indices, I just learn the Illustrious18/Important indices for each game and utilise any other deviations I remember from previous study. If its something niche like doubling 8vs3, i would just ad an extra true count or 2 if I don't remember the exact indice for that specific version. That way I'm making no big mistakes and capitlising when the decision is right.

[LauraBlack]

Excuse my ignorance ... what's LL?

[Cacarulo]

Hi all, I have a couple of questions. For those using 2 counts at once do you update both counts simultaneously? For example, I use a level 2 count with A/5 sidecount and at a full table I update my base count and then glance back through to update the A/5 count. Heads up or just one other player then I try to update both counts at once.
Second question is about where I play there is a mixture of games at several different places. Some are hit soft 17 with no surrender, some are stand on soft 17 with no surrender and some are hit soft 17 with late surrender. Do you memorize the indices for hit soft 17 and stand soft 17 both and also for 2 decks vs 6 decks or do you memorize just one set of indices as a compromise?
It seems it would be very easy to confuse the indices between all of the various games.

A couple of quick responses: Like I mentioned before, it really boils down to each individual's mindset. If you struggle with keeping both counts in sync, you can utilize a stack of chips for the A/5 side count
and position it in two spots (left and right) on the table, depending on whether the secondary count is positive or negative.
Regarding the different games you might encounter in a casino, the ideal approach is to seek out the one that offers you the best SCORE (probably de one with LS).
What's the need to play them all and drive yourself crazy with different rules?

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Cac

[Freightman]

Excuse my ignorance ... what's LL?

Lucky Ladies, very similar to Kings Bounty if you happen to know that - a beatable side game with a huge off the top house edge (exceeding 20%).

[8675309]

A couple of quick responses: Like I mentioned before, it really boils down to each individual's mindset. If you struggle with keeping both counts in sync, you can utilize a stack of chips for the A/5 side count
and position it in two spots (left and right) on the table, depending on whether the secondary count is positive or negative.
Regarding the different games you might encounter in a casino, the ideal approach is to seek out the one that offers you the best SCORE (probably de one with LS).
What's the need to play them all and drive yourself crazy with different rules?

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Cac

Thanks.. by the way I'm doing very well using your system.
The reason I have played all of the games at different places is to try to spread my play around. Even with a regular job I have been playing 4-5 days a week and didn't want to wear out my welcome too fast if possible.

[moo321]

For those using 2 counts at once

Who told you they were doing this? This is internet nonsense. I'd bet a lot of money they couldn't count down a shoe accurately at high speed.


Your side counts don't even make sense. If it's a level II count, the 5 should already be counted in your main count, and side counting it is not going to improve playing efficiency. You would want to side count a medium card, like 7s or 8s to figure out if you should hit stiff hands against a bust card or 14 v. 10. Even then, this is silly.


If you want more power, use full indexes with Hi Lo, switch to a level II count, or if you want to really go overboard, try to learn Hi Opt II. That's the limit of what most people can pull off in a real casino, accurately, for enough time to make money, while paying attention to their surroundings enough to not look like they're counting.

[moo321]

Personally, I've tried this with an insurance count and hi-lo count. I found it to be an absolute nightmare if you are playing heads up and not worth the potential EV. However I have had great success with counting both LL/Hi-Lo on a full table (1/2deck pitch). I would see the cards for the first round and if the count for LL was high I would count it for the remained of the shoe, otherwise I would switch to hi-lo. Half the time, I would remember both counts after 1-2 rounds and switch to the better one. Basically you end up counting Hi-Lo (1/3) of the time and LL (1/3) of the time. Absolutely messes with surveillance and pitbosses.

For indices, I just learn the Illustrious18/Important indices for each game and utilise any other deviations I remember from previous study. If its something niche like doubling 8vs3, i would just ad an extra true count or 2 if I don't remember the exact indice for that specific version. That way I'm making no big mistakes and capitlising when the decision is right.

If you want to play both the main blackjack and lucky ladies, use an ace neutral count, like Hi Opt I or II. Then side count the queen of hearts. You don't even need to side count the aces. The hourly rate on that is going to be a lot higher than trying to count one or the other after one hand.


Or just use Hi Lo and side count the queen of hearts.

[8675309]

Who told you they were doing this? This is internet nonsense. I'd bet a lot of money they couldn't count down a shoe accurately at high speed.


Your side counts don't even make sense. If it's a level II count, the 5 should already be counted in your main count, and side counting it is not going to improve playing efficiency. You would want to side count a medium card, like 7s or 8s to figure out if you should hit stiff hands against a bust card or 14 v. 10. Even then, this is silly.


If you want more power, use full indexes with Hi Lo, switch to a level II count, or if you want to really go overboard, try to learn Hi Opt II. That's the limit of what most people can pull of in a real casino, accurately, for enough time to make money, while paying attention to their surroundings enough to not look like they're counting.

Thanks

[Freightman]

If you want to play both the main blackjack and lucky ladies, use an ace neutral count, like Hi Opt I or II. Then side count the queen of hearts. You don't even need to side count the aces. The hourly rate on that is going to be a lot higher than trying to count one or the other after one hand.


Or just use Hi Lo and side count the queen of hearts.

if you want to play simple - just tie your side LL bets to the True count - no muss, no fuss. Might not be as powerful as a specialized count, but it gets the money.

[8675309]

Who told you they were doing this? This is internet nonsense. I'd bet a lot of money they couldn't count down a shoe accurately at high speed.


Your side counts don't even make sense. If it's a level II count, the 5 should already be counted in your main count, and side counting it is not going to improve playing efficiency. You would want to side count a medium card, like 7s or 8s to figure out if you should hit stiff hands against a bust card or 14 v. 10. Even then, this is silly.


If you want more power, use full indexes with Hi Lo, switch to a level II count, or if you want to really go overboard, try to learn Hi Opt II. That's the limit of what most people can pull of in a real casino, accurately, for enough time to make money, while paying attention to their surroundings enough to not look like they're counting.

I didn't say I was using the side count for playing purposes but thanks.

[Freightman]

I didn't say I was using the side count for playing purposes. It's for betting. I won't go into details because it's a proprietary system but no I can't count at super high speed yet. Although it's improving with practice.

Interesting. My approach on some side counts is loosly tied to play decisions but mostly for betting decisions. I purposely misplay some (not all) single unit play decisions. I’m known as a strong player - thes ‘errors’ are easily made up.

[moo321]

I didn't say I was using the side count for playing purposes but thanks.

What are you using it for then? Are you making an adjustment for surplus/shortage of fives before betting decisions? In that case, using Halves count would be much easier and just as accurate.


I have no idea why someone would side count the aces if they're not doing it for better insurance decisions