Free bet blackjack/pot of gold bet

**8675309** · 02-26-2024, 06:22 PM

Hi all, I played some freebet blackjack last night for the first time. While I did pretty well with winning, I felt like a fish out of water. I seen the basic strategy on wizards site is to do all free splits and doubles allowed. I'm wondering about that strategy if you are counting. For example, would you still want to split 6s against a ten if you know you have a high count? It doesn't seem like you would since you could lose your original high count bet by chasing the free split/double there.
Thanks

**DSchles** · 02-27-2024, 07:33 AM

Split 6s vs. Ten??? You didn't read that on Mike's site. Make sure you know what you're looking at.

Don

**moo321** · 02-27-2024, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by DSchles

Split 6s vs. Ten??? You didn't read that on Mike's site. Make sure you know what you're looking at.

Don

You split 66 vs. 10 in free bet blackjack, because the split gives you free chips. You split any pair against any upcard, except 5-5 because you double, and 10-10 because the split doesn't give you free chips.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/free-bet-blackjack/

**8675309** · 02-27-2024, 08:17 AM

Yes it is the basic strategy for the freebet game. That is way I asked about counting and still making those plays that would be ludicrous in a regular blackjack game. Even though it's basic strategy, if I know the count is high and I will most likely have two 16s against a 20 after splitting does it still make sense to split due to the freebets? Off the top of my head I would have to say no because I'm risking the bigger high count bet even though I get the freebet to split.

**8675309** · 02-27-2024, 08:22 AM

I really just wondered if anyone had ever done any work on this game as far as sims and indices but it probably isn't widespread enough to be worth the trouble.

**moo321** · 02-27-2024, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by 8675309

Hi all, I played some freebet blackjack last night for the first time. While I did pretty well with winning, I felt like a fish out of water. I seen the basic strategy on wizards site is to do all free splits and doubles allowed. I'm wondering about that strategy if you are counting. For example, would you still want to split 6s against a ten if you know you have a high count? It doesn't seem like you would since you could lose your original high count bet by chasing the free split/double there.
Thanks

You can count it. It should start to go positive between +1 and +2 TC with Hi Lo. But I don't know of any software to sim it and get more accurate betting data, or to generate indexes.

There might be an index to not split 66 v. 10, but I'm not sure, and I certainly doubt it's worth anything in the real world. I don't have the numbers for free bet. But in regular blackjack, the EV of hitting 66 v. 10 is -0.38195. Trying to approximate the value of a single six, the EV of hitting 2,4 is -0.339101. But there's a free bet for one of those hands, so it's actually two hands at -33.9%, so you're winning about .32 units. I'm not adjusting for the push 22, or the fact that the free bet hand only pays on a win, so you'd need to adjust it down somewhat, but it's still nowhere close. One play wins about a third of a bet, the other loses more than a third of a bet.

The indexes you would want to look at are probably surrenders and soft doubles. Maybe 8 vs. the bust cards.

**moo321** · 02-27-2024, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by 8675309

I really just wondered if anyone had ever done any work on this game as far as sims and indices but it probably isn't widespread enough to be worth the trouble.

There's enough installs to look at it. A lot of it has gone 6 to 5, and you probably won't be able to lay down really heavy action on it. But it's definitely out there.

I guess you could use Norm's software with the push 22 rule on and at least get your surrender and double indexes. Can anyone think of any reason this wouldn't work?

It wouldn't help you with the splits or doubles, because they're free. But I don't think those indexes are going to be important.

**8675309** · 02-27-2024, 09:39 AM

This one I played is 3 to 2, soft 17, 6 deck, resplit aces, late surrender. The free bets seemed to really help allot in the high count shoes where things didn't go well.

**DSchles** · 02-27-2024, 12:14 PM

You can't write "soft 17." You have to write hit or stand on soft 17: H17 or S17.

Don

**8675309** · 02-27-2024, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by dschles

you can't write "soft 17." you have to write hit or stand on soft 17: H17 or s17.

Don

Stand on soft 17

**VonDox** · 02-27-2024, 03:12 PM

I would like to ask a question... Apologies up front if this is an annoying questions.. but... I have been told/have read in books/listened to pod casts that all of these ALT blackjack games like free bet Black Jack have far worse odds and the house has a greater advantage by far than normal black jack. Superfun 21, Zombie blackjack, Blackjack switch all are, in general harder to win and the house has a greater advantage. Spanish 21 and Pontoon I know are beatable and are played all around the world and are far more popular in Asia and the like. But these other variants are just a way for the house to take your money faster. I know there is nothing as a yes/no to questions like this but I have been told there are some advantages to playing these versions. At the casino I play at the Free Bet black jack table ( just the 1 ) is usually full and from what I can see no pit boss seems to be paying much attention to it. Any reply would be welcome...

**DSchles** · 02-27-2024, 05:15 PM

Playing at full tables is about the worst thing you can do as a card counter at blackjack. And, all the side bets do nothing but slow down the game even farther still. So, a very bad idea.

Don

**moo321** · 02-28-2024, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by VonDox

I would like to ask a question... Apologies up front if this is an annoying questions.. but... I have been told/have read in books/listened to pod casts that all of these ALT blackjack games like free bet Black Jack have far worse odds and the house has a greater advantage by far than normal black jack. Superfun 21, Zombie blackjack, Blackjack switch all are, in general harder to win and the house has a greater advantage. Spanish 21 and Pontoon I know are beatable and are played all around the world and are far more popular in Asia and the like. But these other variants are just a way for the house to take your money faster. I know there is nothing as a yes/no to questions like this but I have been told there are some advantages to playing these versions. At the casino I play at the Free Bet black jack table ( just the 1 ) is usually full and from what I can see no pit boss seems to be paying much attention to it. Any reply would be welcome...

Stop listening to people who just make claims without explaining why, or backing up their claims with math. Games have been ignored for decades because some "expert" said it wasn't beatable. Often without even elaborating, like giving an actual SCORE for the game. I'm certain some of these guys knew the games were beatable and shared disinfo on purpose.

Being able to play variants gives you flexibility. Maybe they don't watch the variant. Maybe you can play at a casino that has soft game protection. Maybe you get a better rating for comp-based plays. Maybe the variant really is more beatable than regular blackjack.