Deck Penetration plus a few misc.

[Sundown]

Newbie here just started counting and keeping track of wins vs loses. In my area only game in town is 8 decks, however for $50 minimum you can get a 6 deck with 1.5 decks cut (too steep for my bankroll). I play basic KO and most indices plays are at the pivot which for me is 32 since I set my IRC at 0. 32 is a hot deck representing a true count of +4 for those that play hi-low. In my experience, 32 comes at the end of shoe, but I started to notice as my numbers would climb and go in the right direction, the cut card would come out and ruin everything prior to me putting out my max bet.

Solution - I walked around and looked at the cut card placement at all the tables and was astonished at how the casinos were ripping players off by cutting 2.5-3 decks. I asked a few dealers, and they told me that's how they were trained. I then asked a few dealers if they could keep it the way I cut the card 1 deck so that I could "play longer at the table and they wouldn't have to constantly shuffle up as that's more work for them") They agreed , and what a feeling it is to see all them 10s and aces come out of the shoe when you counted right. As a matter of fact most of the time, I fake like I'm taking a little break by sitting out all the while counting knowing that because the cut card is much deeper, I'll be able to reach my count thus having an advantage even if it's for a few big hands. I'll never sit at a table that doesn't offer deep penetration again.

Lastly, now that I'm counting, wow all the voodoo talk at the table. It amazes me with so much info out there that people still hold these ridiculous beliefs (I was one of those people). I now surrender my 15s and 16s, and people think I'm ruining the flow of the table, I'll get dirty looks and yelled at. Meanwhile these suckers are raising their bets right into a cold deck only because they won 2 or 3 hands in a row, and now they bitchin when they lose it all as the dealer is not busting on those stiffs.

Long post but just wanted to try and give something back to this group for being so helpful. I now can go to my local casino and identify 3-4 dealers who don't mind placing that cut card where it needs to be. I even have there shift schedule just by yapping it up with them. I'm sure you can do this as well but keep it quiet.

[21forme]

First, you career at that casino isn't likely to be long if you keep talking to dealers about where the cut card is.

Second, here's a ploy I have found successful when the ploppies freak about surrendering the hand:
Offer the player the opportunity to buy your hand (for what you have in the circle) and play it any way he wants, so the flow of the cards aren't disturbed. You will get some takers and get your full bet back, rather than half. If they do accept, experiment and ask if they will buy your hand because you want to surrender your 14vT, 16 vs. 8, etc. And if they don't accept your offer, they will probably shut up.

[Freightman]

Meanwhile these suckers are raising their bets right into a cold deck only because they won 2 or 3 hands

During my formative period, I was sitting next to a young lady who had won 3 or 4 hands in a row. She excitedly stated that it usually comes in spurts. What a coincidence, I replied.

[Sundown]

Dealers are clueless as well. Most of them are spreading the voodoo propaganda to players at the table. I'm also pretty good at disguising my true intention.

[Sundown]

Lol.

[moo321]

First, you career at that casino isn't likely to be long if you keep talking to dealers about where the cut card is.

How else are you going to play an 8 decker with 2.5-3 cut off? The game is terrible, so you throw a hail mary to try to make it acceptable. If they say no, you find another casino.


What's the downside? Not being able to play a game with a SCORE of 4?

[moo321]

Lastly, now that I'm counting, wow all the voodoo talk at the table. It amazes me with so much info out there that people still hold these ridiculous beliefs (I was one of those people). I now surrender my 15s and 16s, and people think I'm ruining the flow of the table, I'll get dirty looks and yelled at. Meanwhile these suckers are raising their bets right into a cold deck only because they won 2 or 3 hands in a row, and now they bitchin when they lose it all as the dealer is not busting on those stiffs.

Ploppy heat is a real thing, and it can lead to real problems at the table. It's loud, draws attention to your plays, and can cause suits to become interested. It can even cause security to start watching you because they're worried about a fight at the table. These are all bad things. It's something APs need to learn how to manage.


Starting off, it's best to try to keep this situation from even developing by having good relations with other players. Cheer each other on, celebrate a table win, etc. People tend to squawk when they're unhappy. Ignoring the complaining can work, but sometmes you need to get assertive with people and shut them up, or else leave.


If you think someone is a risk to try to fight you, you should probably just leave.

[Sundown]

Thanks for the advice. Trying to build my bankroll up so I won't have to deal with them too often.

[Sundown]

Exactly, I just go find another table. I backed counted for an hour at 1 table in order to ensure I was stepping into the advantage and it worked out, but then lost it all and then some when I backed counted another table (you saw my post about that). Oh well tomorrow another day I guess. Just need to find out how to play the multi card 15 , 16 stiffs vs dealers 10.

Thanks for your feedback by the way.

[VonDox]

Umm... You stood at a table for 1 hour just counting and never joined?? Never walked around and did anything else but just stood there for 1 hour... standing and looking at a table?? All I can say your casino's are a lot more tolerant than mine because at a tribal casino after about 20 mins if you do that and then try and sit down, you will probably get told no mid-shoe entry on the spot by the pit boss. I really think you need to read some books on how to wong in. I will be upfront.. I just can't do it myself. I don't have enough tables operating and enough open seats to just stand there for an hour and then quickly sit down, buy in and then play... I play all, and when the count gets bad, I just go to the bathroom and grab a drink and slowly walk back.. If the shoe ends by then.. okay with me... A fresh shoe brings new opportunities. I use the RED 7 counting for 6-deck shoes with index plays and if I past 3 decks and the count is -20 I just take a break or pretend my phone went off and bow out of a few hands while fake talking on the phone and keeping the count when I am standing back from the table. Can't do it often but it works in a pinch.. Also, the "Oh I see a friend, need to say hi, deal me out of the next couple of hands", then just walk awaya and come back after the shoe is nearly done. Lots of ways to do it. Only a large casino has wonging ever worked for me, but in the mid-west, when you only have 3-4 tables going.. you look like a reall odd-ball and draw the attention of the pit team fast.

[moo321]

Umm... You stood at a table for 1 hour just counting and never joined?? Never walked around and did anything else but just stood there for 1 hour... standing and looking at a table??

It'll stick out if you try it at a remote Indian casino with one blackjack game open. But there are a lot of places you can do this. Big casinos with lots of tables open. Weekends.

[Sundown]

No, I joined when the count was in my favor.which mostly happens at the end of the shoe. I'll also sit out during a shoe and come back in. No cell phones allowed at the table where I play. Again not drawing any heat because not cashing in for a large amount, nor am I extracting large amounts either.

[VonDox]

Agreed.... But, even some larger casinos, non-tribal, depending upon what time of day it can look really obvious to what he did. Just alerting him that it would be a really good idea to read a book about wonging the right way...