Any questions about 6:5 blackjack?

[moo321]

I'm doing a study on 6:5 blackjack, and I wanted to check in with the AP community to see if you had any questions that you might want answered. So far I'm going to look at:


-Which counting systems work best on 6:5
-SCORE for different rule sets, pen, and bet spreads
-How seat position affects SCORE
-How different number of players affects SCORE, particularly with "Rule of X" pen

[sondjata]

Given the initial house edge is up around 1.5% you'd need to bet extremely high amounts at extremely high counts to get any real EV (assuming no hole carding) so why bother?

[DSchles]

I'm doing a study on 6:5 blackjack, and I wanted to check in with the AP community to see if you had any questions that you might want answered. So far I'm going to look at:


-Which counting systems work best on 6:5
-SCORE for different rule sets, pen, and bet spreads
-How seat position affects SCORE
-How different number of players affects SCORE, particularly with "Rule of X" pen

Just a quick comment. Technically, SCORE isn't affected by the last two items; hourly win rate is, which is a different metric. SCORE dictates where you sit and how many players are at the table.

Don

[name banned]

Are you studying variants of blackjack that offer 6:5? Free bet, double up, etc?

[moo321]

Are you studying variants of blackjack that offer 6:5? Free bet, double up, etc?

I'd like to, but Norm's software doesn't have the capability to study several of the popular ones, like free bet.

[moo321]

Just a quick comment. Technically, SCORE isn't affected by the last two items; hourly win rate is, which is a different metric. SCORE dictates where you sit and how many players are at the table.

Don

Changing the number of players can change the effective pen, which changes SCORE.

[moo321]

Given the initial house edge is up around 1.5% you'd need to bet extremely high amounts at extremely high counts to get any real EV (assuming no hole carding) so why bother?

Not necessarily. With a large spread, a decent number of games are not only playable, but some extremely good. SCORE values over 100.


And it doesn't always require a large spread. There are a few games with a SCORE of over 100 with only a 1-6 spread.


And this is with Hi Lo. You can get a pretty big bump with stronger counts like Zen and Hi Opt II.

[8675309]

I'd like to hear more. I have avoided 6:5 like the plague but it sounds much more doable than I imagined.
I don't use hilo but I assume you would need a count that doesn't give much or any value to the ace?
Thanks

[moo321]

I'd like to hear more. I have avoided 6:5 like the plague but it sounds much more doable than I imagined.
I don't use hilo but I assume you would need a count that doesn't give much or any value to the ace?
Thanks

The best counts give a little weight to the ace. Zen is just about optimal for an ace-rendered count. Hi Opt II with surplus aces rendered +1 for betting purposes is slightly better than Zen.


But HiLo does get the money. As usual.

[8675309]

I don't use a very large spread at all for blackjack. What would the betting ramp and spread look like for a 6:5 six deck game using original zen count for example? I'm off to work right now but I'm intrigued. Thanks again for your help.

[moo321]

If you aren't going to use a really large spread, you'll have to back-count to beat the shoes. And the 6 deckers aren't very profitable unless they have really good pen. Unless it's below a deck cut off, it's gonna be a waste of time.


With Zen on an H17 DAS 6 decker, the game goes breakeven right around +7. So, you'll start ramping up at about +8. Here's the advantage by true count so you can come up with a bet ramp.

Zen 6d.jpg

[8675309]

If you aren't going to use a really large spread, you'll have to back-count to beat the shoes. And the 6 deckers aren't very profitable unless they have really good pen. Unless it's below a deck cut off, it's gonna be a waste of time.


With Zen on an H17 DAS 6 decker, the game goes breakeven right around +7. So, you'll start ramping up at about +8. Here's the advantage by true count so you can come up with a bet ramp.

Zen 6d.jpg

Thanks a bunch

[DSchles]

Changing the number of players can change the effective pen, which changes SCORE.

I'm trying to explain that SCORE is a very specific metric that dictates how many players are at the table. If you change that number (two for SD, three for DD, and four for shoes), you don't have a SCORE anymore; you have an hourly win rate. Do you understand?

Don