Advice from folks who use multiple card side count

[8675309]

Hi, I know I'll see some answers telling me not to do it but I was wanting to hear from those of you who keep a multiple card side count while playing. I use a balanced level 2 count and have it down well but I'm also adding a balanced two card side count and sometimes it goes very smooth and sometimes not so much. I know some use alphabet or different language on ace side count but on a balanced two card side count I didn't feel that would be a viable option. The side count seems to be a steeper hill to climb which could possibly be from the cards being different values between the two counts or the fact that often when one count climbs the other will fall. Other than plain old stubborn practice or not doing it, any advice on how to speed the learning curve for this? Thanks

[BJGenius007]

For ace side count, since I play 6D, I just think the picture of the following 24 items. Apple, Banana, Chicken, Duck, Egg, Fish, Goose, Ham, Ice cube, Juice, Kiwi, Lemon, Mango, Nectar, Orange, Papaya, Queens cocktail, Rum, Sake, Tequila, Utopia cocktail, Vodka, Wine, XO. (If I play 8D, I started with Queens, Rum, sake etc. Just add the last eight items.) For another side count to count mid cards, I use my toes.

[Freightman]

865-3709
First, not sure of your area code - think you might like to hear praises of Jenny.
https://youtu.be/axLRUszuu9I?si=yD4aevrgAv7cKPc-

First, what are you side counting and for what purpose.
eg., aces, multitudes of ways such as described above, digital nut count, or, or or other combinations.

For 2 to 4 cards as a cumulative number divided by decks remaining to determine deficit or surplus - use the alphabet. I regurgitate letters a thru m (m being 13 or 1/2 deck) - 1 cycle = 13, 2 cycles =26 etc.

[8675309]

865-3709
First, not sure of your area code - think you might like to hear praises of Jenny.
https://youtu.be/axLRUszuu9I?si=yD4aevrgAv7cKPc-

First, what are you side counting and for what purpose.
eg., aces, multitudes of ways such as described above, digital nut count, or, or or other combinations.

For 2 to 4 cards as a cumulative number divided by decks remaining to determine deficit or surplus - use the alphabet. I regurgitate letters a thru m (m being 13 or 1/2 deck) - 1 cycle = 13, 2 cycles =26 etc.

That song was on radio station many years ago when I signed up here... hence the name. I guess I'm showing my age. Lol
I am side counting aces and 5s for betting purposes only and I play 6 deck almost exclusively. I start at zero since it's a balanced count and add to or subtract from the base count for the given situation and then divide for true count for betting only. I'm sure many times the composition will not be skewed enough to matter but on occasion when the aces are severely depleted or the fives are all still hiding in the shoe it could be a great help.
I have thought about using alphabet and also read somewhere a player was visualizing keeping the base count on left side of his head and side count on right side. I don't have trouble with mixing them up, I'm just awkward as hell with them and not at a point of being perfect with it.
Thanks

[Freightman]

I am side counting aces and 5s for betting purposes only and I play 6 deck almost exclusively. I start at zero since it's a balanced count and add to or subtract from the base count for the given situation and then divide for true count for betting only.

So to be clear, are you playing the very poor ace five count as primary count, or are side counting aces and fives in addition to a primary count - and if so, what count are you using.

If the latter, have a look at Secretariat’s last post in the f*** the count thread.

[8675309]

So to be clear, are you playing the very poor ace five count as primary count, or are side counting aces and fives in addition to a primary count - and if so, what count are you using.

If the latter, have a look at Secretariat’s last post in the f*** the count thread.

Cac2 primary count...Ace-5 as secondary betting count.

[Freightman]

Cac2 primary count...Ace-5 as secondary betting count.

Interesting. From an accepted theoretical perspective, side counts incorporated with a balanced primary count are utilized to improve playing decisions, not betting decisions. So, as you clearly state A 5 is for betting only, this would clearly mean - using simmed optimal betting as a guide, that you would deviate from above and below optimal depending on the surplus or deficit of A 5. There is merit, though consider further.

My own journey has led me to ASC for playing decisions using a cumulative 6789 side count to deviate from the optimal example given above (though giving consideration to 89 sidecount).

[BJPloppy]

Freightman,


I think you are forgetting about at least one glaring example of using the side count for betting. If you use HO2 and side count Aces against threes & sixes...You are using RPC for betting.

[moo321]

It's not worth it for modern shoe games. Unless you're playing a side bet or something. Most pros use Hi Lo, especially if you're going to do any shuffle tracking. A few use level 2 counts, and there is enough gain there that it can make sense as long as you're not getting too fatigued from it. I know maybe 2 people that use level 3 balanced counts. I don't know anyone that does ace side counts on shoe games.


You'll probably get a comparable gain by just learning full indexes for your counting system.

[Cacarulo]

It's not worth it for modern shoe games. Unless you're playing a side bet or something. Most pros use Hi Lo, especially if you're going to do any shuffle tracking. A few use level 2 counts, and there is enough gain there that it can make sense as long as you're not getting too fatigued from it. I know maybe 2 people that use level 3 balanced counts. I don't know anyone that does ace side counts on shoe games.


You'll probably get a comparable gain by just learning full indexes for your counting system.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion about modern shoe games. The gains achievable through the
use of a side count can range from 3% to 6% in terms of SCORE, as explained in "Enhanced CAC2".
Perhaps you may not be acquainted with many individuals who use ace side counts, but I can assure
you that there are many. Anyone using HO2 necessarily requires an ace side count. The same goes for AO2.
Any balanced system can be used for shuffle tracking, not just Hi-Lo. The secret lies in one's mastery of the chosen system.
It's also possible with unbalanced systems, although it becomes a bit more complicated.

Sincerely,
Cac

[Cacarulo]

Freightman,

I think you are forgetting about at least one glaring example of using the side count for betting. If you use HO2 and side count Aces against threes & sixes...You are using RPC for betting.

That's a very good example of how to use side counts to improve betting efficiency. Years ago, I remember analyzing HO2/A against HO2/A36,
and the conclusion was that the former outperformed the latter. The explanation is simple: the former has a better BC/BE.

HO2 ------ 0.9172/0.8826
HO2/A ---- 0.9798/0.9712
HO2/A36 -- 0.9759/0.9657

However, when comparing it to CAC2 and CAC2/A5, the difference is noticeable:

CAC2 ----- 0.9621/0.9461
CAC2/A5 -- 0.9829/0.9756

Anyway, it is not my intention to provide more information about a privately marketed system.
I just wanted to emphasize the importance of choosing a secondary count.

Sincerely,
Cac

[awesomeblue7]

I too am in the same boat as you in questioning how I can practically use the information from CAC2 ENH to bolster the strengths of the level 2 balanced count. In recent reading of Blackjack Autumn: A True Tale of Life, Death, and Splitting Tens in Winnemucca

by Barry Meadow, I picked up the idea of using left and right feet to keep track of these additional side count values.

I do like BJGenius007's taste, but feel some physical indicator would be better suited for myself.

[Cacarulo]

I too am in the same boat as you in questioning how I can practically use the information from CAC2 ENH to bolster the strengths of the level 2 balanced count. In recent reading of Blackjack Autumn: A True Tale of Life, Death, and Splitting Tens in Winnemucca

by Barry Meadow, I picked up the idea of using left and right feet to keep track of these additional side count values.

I do like BJGenius007's taste, but feel some physical indicator would be better suited for myself.

The topic of memorization techniques is highly personal. What some find easy, others may find challenging, and vice versa.
The chip method is a good alternative, but discretion is key. Some people effortlessly maintain two or more side counts.
It's all a matter of practice. However, before delving into more advanced techniques, it's crucial to master CAC2 first.

Sincerely,
Cac