Automatic Shufflers

[Norm]

No casino is going to use a Raspberry Pi powered 3D printed shuffler.

[moo321]

I thought we were talking about a continuous shuffle machine (CSM). That would be ridiculous enough to try to rig.


You're talking about automatic shufflers. There's no way. The players get to cut the deck. And the number of players can change at any time.


The only possible thing I could imagine would be to make it shuffle a lot of the high cards into one section, and have the dealer pass a confederate the cut card every time, so they cut the slug out of play. No one would do this, because you could easily get caught, and it's easier to just short the shoe and swap a few aces and tens for low cards. Or mark the deck and deal seconds, etc.

[VonDox]

We know that these machines can be hacked by people who know what to do. There was a really good article in WIRED magazine about the hacking of machine to learn the exact order the cards would come out. ( see wired article https://www.wired.com/story/card-shuffler-hack/ ) But I don't see how or what good or benefit it would do a casino?? Let's say they can rig the machine to shuffle the cards in a certain order? That is the only variable the casino could control. They can't control the number of people who sit down at a BJ table and they can't control how many cards a player would take, they also HAVE to take per the rules of the game so it would throw off any order they had programmed in. Even trying to bury high cards towards the back you still run into the issue of a player cutting the cards and throwing the order out of sequence. Then throw in the happy drunk ploppy/ies who just takes cards regardless of basic strategy and again, you throw off any chance of aligning the cards in such a way when they are shuffled that would aid the casino. Anyway, I know from friends who are have worked for casinos that the machines are checked frequently and also state regulators come in and also check equipment. The only way it makes sense to 'rig a machine' is if you could read the cards in the machine ( see the article ) and then makes plays accordingly. I think it would be in the casino's best interest to make sure that the machine work in perfect order and make it as random as possible.. They already have an advantage as it stands so why risk trying to rig them in anyway to give them even more of advantage and risk having it leaked and destroy the creditablity of the casino?? It makes no sense. The only way a casino could create an advantage is by removing certain cards from the deck which would give the an advantage to the house. I believe Wong in his book had some examples of casinos in the past that removed certain cards and and as a result gave the house a far larger win precentage But again, why risk it?? They get audited by regulators as well and fixing games like that would only result in fines and possible closer. Makes no sense..

[iCountNTrack]

I did some analysis on non-random shuffles and the effect for the basic strategy player. Basically the less random the shuffle was the worth it was for a basic strategy player, but the 0.12% gain can quickly be wiped out by AP exploiting the non-randomnes of the shuffles as Norm pointed out

[G Man]

I will keep it very simple: If I had a casino and would like to stack the shoe with an auto shuffler, I would never alter the odds of the game, I would simply arrange the card distribution in a way that "almost never" produces a TC of more than +1. The ploppies wouldn't see anything while most counters would get a + situation (see the "almost never") here and there but never enough to cover all those waiting hands. In 3 words, mostly flat shoes.

[Norm]

That would alter the odds of the game.

[G Man]

How ? Ain't that what a CSM does ? If the cards a put back into the machine every hand, you never get a positive playable TC ...

[Norm]

That's not what the One2Six does. Don't know about other CSMs. If they do, there is no law against shuffling every round. There is a law against altering the odds. And arranging the cards in some matter to reduce variance of card values would alter the odds in some manner. For example, split opportunities would be reduced.

[G Man]

For example, split opportunities would be reduced.

I don't see how. But won't argue :-)

[moo321]

I will keep it very simple: If I had a casino and would like to stack the shoe with an auto shuffler, I would never alter the odds of the game, I would simply arrange the card distribution in a way that "almost never" produces a TC of more than +1. The ploppies wouldn't see anything while most counters would get a + situation (see the "almost never") here and there but never enough to cover all those waiting hands. In 3 words, mostly flat shoes.

The same basic effect can be achieved without committing a felony by cutting 3 decks off of the shoe. The house would lose far more money from the lost 15 hands/hr due to extra shuffling than they would ever have lost to counters, as smart casino consultants like Bill Zender and Eliot Jacobson have pointed out for years. But you can do it.

[Doubletrouble]

But were talking about automatic shufflers not continuous shufflers

[Doubletrouble]

Exactly splits and doubles

[G Man]

But were talking about automatic shufflers not continuous shufflers

Read the thread before answering...