See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 25

Thread: Mechanisms online casinos use to catch bots

  1. #1


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    Mechanisms online casinos use to catch bots

    I've made software that plays for me at an online casino. I'm currently in the process of trying to understand what exact strategies online casinos use to detect players using bots. I've read research papers such as this one https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...67923699000469 which goes over some commonly used bots and combatants to those bots. Other than that I'm a bit stuck on where else I should go for knowledge. The world of combatting scripting seems vast but I'm not sure where to begin. So I've came to make a forum post to see if anyone has good knowledge about online casino mechanisms to catch scripting or perhaps point me in the right direction on places/links that can provide me with that knowledge. Thanks in advance for any information that can help me.

  2. #2


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Do you really have that much WR to get through that you can't just play by hand?

    Are you having to play like a $10,000 WR on quarter VP or something?

    Gnoming a bunch of accounts?
    The Cash Cow.

  3. #3


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by alikmetalik View Post
    I've made software that plays for me at an online casino. I'm currently in the process of trying to understand what exact strategies online casinos use to detect players using bots. I've read research papers such as this one https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...67923699000469 which goes over some commonly used bots and combatants to those bots. Other than that I'm a bit stuck on where else I should go for knowledge. The world of combatting scripting seems vast but I'm not sure where to begin. So I've came to make a forum post to see if anyone has good knowledge about online casino mechanisms to catch scripting or perhaps point me in the right direction on places/links that can provide me with that knowledge. Thanks in advance for any information that can help me.
    Under typical conditions online blackjack is not beatable. When it is beatable due to some bonus or promotion a bot would be of little practical use.

    I doubt online casinos spend much time or effort countering a non-existent threat.

  4. #4


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Archvaldor View Post
    Under typical conditions online blackjack is not beatable. When it is beatable due to some bonus or promotion a bot would be of little practical use.

    I doubt online casinos spend much time or effort countering a non-existent threat.
    No, they definitely try to stop people from using software to grind out wagering requirements. Multi-accounters are one of their biggest threat, and they like to use playing software because they can run 100 accounts that way.
    The Cash Cow.

  5. #5


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
    No, they definitely try to stop people from using software to grind out wagering requirements. Multi-accounters are one of their biggest threat, and they like to use playing software because they can run 100 accounts that way.
    I did this for many years professionally. Allowing blackjack for wagering purposes has not been commonplace for more than a decade.
    Last edited by Archvaldor; 12-23-2023 at 03:38 PM.

  6. #6


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Archvaldor View Post
    I did this for many years professionally. Allowing blackjack for wagering purposes has not been commonplace for more than a decade.
    it's extremely common with the legal sites.

    Bonuses have really dried up in the last year or so but for a while many sites at bonus that would often clear at something like 4x on slots or 20x on BJ.
    A lot of those sites then went to 10x on slots.
    I just cleared some today that are now 25x on slots but only 50x on bj.

    There have also been targeted offers that were 5-10x on BJ.

    For a while Fanduel had a blackjack promo once a week they called Blackjack Warrior that was public. It started as bet 10k on BJ on a certain day of the week get 500 dollars. Then they lowered it to 250 dollars before getting rid of it.

    There was an awesome public offer on Draftkings a couple of years ago-
    play 20,000 on vacation BJ (it was just BJ with a certain felt design- the game was normal) and get a 2,000 dollar bonus.
    Oddly it was only good in Pennsylvania and Michigan. Not sure about the rules in Michigan but in PA they have to give the extremely favorite PA rules set by the gaming commission.

  7. #7


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by tomf23 View Post
    it's extremely common with the legal sites.

    Bonuses have really dried up in the last year or so but for a while many sites at bonus that would often clear at something like 4x on slots or 20x on BJ.
    A lot of those sites then went to 10x on slots.
    I just cleared some today that are now 25x on slots but only 50x on bj.

    There have also been targeted offers that were 5-10x on BJ.

    For a while Fanduel had a blackjack promo once a week they called Blackjack Warrior that was public. It started as bet 10k on BJ on a certain day of the week get 500 dollars. Then they lowered it to 250 dollars before getting rid of it.

    There was an awesome public offer on Draftkings a couple of years ago-
    play 20,000 on vacation BJ (it was just BJ with a certain felt design- the game was normal) and get a 2,000 dollar bonus.
    Oddly it was only good in Pennsylvania and Michigan. Not sure about the rules in Michigan but in PA they have to give the extremely favorite PA rules set by the gaming commission.

    There are many online casinos and most are legal within the jurisdiction they operate. I think what you mean is "the very small number of bricks and mortar casinos recently legalized in certain US states".

    This is less than 1% of the global population of online casinos and most of these are restricted in other US states let alone other countries. So you are talking about a very niche opportunity.

    That said blackjack bonuses clearly do exist to some extent here and even in the older online casino multiverse they are sometimes if very rarely offered (usually for lower absolute amounts to "good customers") so the question as to how casinos detect botting is worth addressing.

    If I were running an online casino then I wouldn't see much reason to deal to any one:

    1. Playing a rough approximation of basic strategy.
    2. Betting minimum.
    3. Not playing other games.

    Bots fall into this category so there is no additional reason to detect or ban them specifically. They fall very obviously into a category of undesirable players. Which is why most casinos don't bother with bot detection as a practical matter. For recurring/targeted offers you don't need to ban, you just don't send offers to accounts without a history of negative expectation play. This in practice is what euro casinos/books have been doing for decades. In fact this is what happens in other areas where bots pose a threat: gold-farming in MMO's is a billion-dollar industry much more profitable than advantage play- video game operators just bar players who farm gold hours 18 hours a day they don't care whether they bot or not.

    There are more sophisticated methods I've heard of. For example something poker rooms figured out early on was that if someone was clicking on the same pixel repeatedly they probably weren't human. But it is really easy to randomize mouse movement. You'd think that poker rooms and casinos would have worked out human movement isn't truly random or pseudo-random in the mathematical sense either, but it never got to that stage: they probably worked out this line of defense wasn't going to be successful. I would be careful to randomize everything with delays etc if using a bot though just in case.

    Maybe the US operations coming online do something different and do actively seek out botters: But you aren't likely to ever find out exactly what that is since it is likely a trade secret, it will be different for each operation in any case, and by definition you can't figure it out logically because such efforts would be fundamentally irrational.
    Last edited by Archvaldor; 12-27-2023 at 10:34 AM.

  8. #8


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Archvaldor View Post
    There are many online casinos and most are legal within the jurisdiction they operate. I think what you mean is "the very small number of bricks and mortar casinos recently legalized in certain US states".

    This is less than 1% of the global population of online casinos and most of these are restricted in other US states let alone other countries. So you are talking about a very niche opportunity.

    That said blackjack bonuses clearly do exist to some extent here and even in the older online casino multiverse they are sometimes if very rarely offered (usually for lower absolute amounts to "good customers") so the question as to how casinos detect botting is worth addressing.

    If I were running an online casino then I wouldn't see much reason to deal to any one:

    1. Playing a rough approximation of basic strategy.
    2. Betting minimum.
    3. Not playing other games.

    Bots fall into this category so there is no additional reason to detect or ban them specifically. They fall very obviously into a category of undesirable players. Which is why most casinos don't bother with bot detection as a practical matter. For recurring/targeted offers you don't need to ban, you just don't send offers to accounts without a history of negative expectation play. This in practice is what euro casinos/books have been doing for decades. In fact this is what happens in other areas where bots pose a threat: gold-farming in MMO's is a billion-dollar industry much more profitable than advantage play- video game operators just bar players who farm gold hours 18 hours a day they don't care whether they bot or not.

    There are more sophisticated methods I've heard of. For example something poker rooms figured out early on was that if someone was clicking on the same pixel repeatedly they probably weren't human. But it is really easy to randomize mouse movement. You'd think that poker rooms and casinos would have worked out human movement isn't truly random or pseudo-random in the mathematical sense either, but it never got to that stage: they probably worked out this line of defense wasn't going to be successful. I would be careful to randomize everything with delays etc if using a bot though just in case.

    Maybe the US operations coming online do something different and do actively seek out botters: But you aren't likely to ever find out exactly what that is since it is likely a trade secret, it will be different for each operation in any case, and by definition you can't figure it out logically because such efforts would be fundamentally irrational.
    most people on this site live in the US and many of them either have legal online casinos in their state or it may be worth traveling for certain promos that were around for a long time.

  9. #9


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by tomf23 View Post
    most people on this site live in the US and many of them either have legal online casinos in their state or it may be worth traveling for certain promos that were around for a long time.
    It would be worth travelling outside the US altogether in that case where you can access the other 99% of the online casino/sportsbook market.

    It doesn't seem like there are enough promos from "legal" us casinos to justify the travel expenses and inconvenience of much inter-state travel within the US, from what I can tell of the extremely limited number of operations you are talking about. Maybe if you combine it with travel to physical casinos it makes sense as a secondary income but from what you are saying that is about it.

  10. #10


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Archvaldor View Post
    If I were running an online casino then I wouldn't see much reason to deal to any one:

    blah blah blah
    Why do people make posts like this?


    Do you see Ford's CEO doing interviews and saying "If Toyota and Honda make a strong move into light trucks in North America, we would lose 50% of our market share"?


    Are you not aware that casino employees read these boards?


    Do you not care because you're apparently not playing online blackjack anymore?
    The Cash Cow.

  11. #11


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
    Why do people make posts like this?


    Do you see Ford's CEO doing interviews and saying "If Toyota and Honda make a strong move into light trucks in North America, we would lose 50% of our market share"?
    Sorry I was unaware I had inexplicable godlike powers of influence.

  12. #12


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    You do have the power to ruin other people's games.
    The Cash Cow.

  13. #13


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
    You do have the power to ruin other people's games.


    You were ruining your own game.

    You wrote:
    "No, they definitely try to stop people from using software to grind out wagering requirements. Multi-accounters are one of their biggest threat, and they like to use playing software because they can run 100 accounts that way."

    I imagine any online casino employees reading this thread. would focus on that specific sentence.
    That would be terrifying to any one running an online gambling operation. They would likely respond by pulling any kind of blackjack bonus or meaningful positive expectation bonus altogether. That is in fact what happened with the offshore casinos years ago when large scale gnoming operations emerged. I can't imagine a sentence more likely to cause irrational paranoia and kill whatever opportunity exists here.

    By contrast I was clearly trying to put the very limited threat from advantage players to online casinos in context. I'm not exactly sure how you managed to contort this in your mind into the exact opposite of what you think it is but you need to think more about what you say and what you read..

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Using A.I. Bots to Pick Stocks
    By Overkill in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-10-2023, 02:05 AM
  2. How often do casinos catch hole carders?
    By blueman in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-19-2017, 11:05 AM
  3. Technologies Casinos Use to Catch Cheaters
    By Halbruno in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-13-2013, 03:47 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.