Opinions on counter basic strategy opposed to index plays

[8675309]

That was copied from a post on gambling forums dot com.
Maybe I read it wrong. The context is a guy started a thread called "illustrious 18 tells or illustrious 18, that is the question".

[8675309]

I am learning 52 indices plus surrender. I was just curious about what others thought.

[Freightman]

KewlJ
KewlJ
Well-Known Member
Will you just stop dude.

Hmmm, post 1 which you wrote refers to KJ - make a decision dude! As far as the rest of it goes - We’ll,it sure sounds like KJ.

or giving up all strategy change plays and just playing basic strategy, isn't giving up that much.

Simply dumb.

[Gronbog]

I think that there's a bit of confusion about the initial statement. I would agree that using a card-counter's basic strategy alone vs using basic strategy alone will make very little difference. This ties in well with Moo's post indicating that this would be applicable to big players coming in for short bursts and not knowing any indices. However, Don and I showed in our book that using indices makes a huge difference in SCORE vs using none at all. So to say that using a card counter's basic strategy alone with no indices vs index play makes little difference is certainly not true. No sims needed.

[Norm]

Counter basic strategy is one of those kinda neat concepts that has little actual purpose. It was developed back when the rules were great and less effort was required to win. The largest, current BP team I know of with decades of experience does not use it. As for KJ, he is not an expert.

[Norm]

That was copied from a post on gambling forums dot com.
Maybe I read it wrong. The context is a guy started a thread called "illustrious 18 tells or illustrious 18, that is the question".

That's an attack site that was illegally copying posts from here en masse for a while. Don't know if they still are.

[21forme]

As for KJ, he is not an expert.

That was tamer than I expected

[Freightman]

That was tamer than I expected

Perhaps they’ve had a discussion over dining arrangements. Oh, do you think 8675309 is a KJ alias.

[21forme]

Perhaps they’ve had a discussion over dining arrangements. Oh, do you think 8675309 is a KJ alias.

TBH, I haven't been reading many posts here lately, so I can't say. I've been too busy skiing and trying to find MWP a decent place to live, so we stop getting his weather reports.

What I can say is I sent KJ an email about 2 months ago and he never responded. Guess he's too busy posting the same thing for the 10,000th time in response to those pathologic liars and sociopaths on that pathetic excuse for a forum where he hangs out.

[Norm]

Perhaps they’ve had a discussion over dining arrangements. Oh, do you think 8675309 is a KJ alias.

No he/she is not. Enough about KJ.

[moo321]

playing hands differently at different counts was a dead giveaway as a counter.

I don't share this sentiment. There's a couple plays that could possibly tip off a sharp game protection employee. Most game protection is not sharp, you shouldn't be playing a count game against sharp employees, and few game protection employees will be looking at the play of the hands at all. Game protection generally uses other methods, and Cellini's book is still pretty relevant.

Sorry to be a bit obtuse, but game protection for the casino is one thing that should never be discussed with specificity on public forums. They don't need help.

[Cacarulo]

Yes it helps...thanks
I am trying to learn to use the software better as I am not very good with anything other than just viewing the included canned sims and tweaking the betting and such.
I had just seen that Snyder had recommended using that CBS modified basic strategy as a sort of cover because he stated that playing hands differently at different counts was a dead giveaway as a counter.
In my mind I was just questioning whether it was worth the cost of not using indices in order to fly under the radar a little more but if playing all then I am thinking even the plays that have zero as an index would have a great cost if always playing them like I was in a positive count. Unfortunately I am not yet able to use software well enough to answer these questions but I will learn to. Thanks again

Probably, and as other posters have mentioned, the ideal for this type of strategy is for team play. However, if you use the normal basic strategy with a single index, for example, insurance, you will obtain more benefits than with the modified strategy.

Sincerely,
Cac