Is an equivalent count that HiOPT II trnaslates to the HiLo count.

[BigJer]

Say the TC with HiOpt II w/ASC is 10. Is there a way to approximate what the TC is for HiLo? I'm using this for betting purposes. (I know how to bet with HiOpt II. Ok?) TIA.

[DSchles]

Say the TC with HiOpt II w/ASC is 10. Is there a way to approximate what the TC is for HiLo? I'm using this for betting purposes. (I know how to bet with HiOpt II. Ok?) TIA.

Yes. Square all of the Hi-Lo tag values and sum. Square all of the Hi-Opt II tags and sum. Form the ratio. Take the square root of the ratio. This is what you multiply the Hi-Opt II TC by to get Hi-Lo TC. And, this is simply an approximation. It isn't intended to be perfect.

So Hi-Lo tags squared = 10. Hi-Opt II tags squared = 16. Ratio is 10/16 = 5/8 = 0.625. Square root is 0.79 (call it 0.8). Multiply Hi-Opt II TC by 0.8 to get Hi-Lo TC (more or less!). So +10 becomes +8.

Don

[BigJer]

Yes. Square all of the Hi-Lo tag values and sum. Square all of the Hi-Opt II tags and sum. Form the ratio. Take the square root of the ratio. This is what you multiply the Hi-Opt II TC by to get Hi-Lo TC. And, this is simply an approximation. It isn't intended to be perfect.

So Hi-Lo tags squared = 10. Hi-Opt II tags squared = 16. Ratio is 10/16 = 5/8 = 0.625. Square root is 0.79 (call it 0.8). Multiply Hi-Opt II TC by 0.8 to get Hi-Lo TC (more or less!). So +10 becomes +8.

Don

Thanks, Don.

[Cacarulo]

Say the TC with HiOpt II w/ASC is 10. Is there a way to approximate what the TC is for HiLo? I'm using this for betting purposes. (I know how to bet with HiOpt II. Ok?) TIA.

Reviewing my simulations for 6D, S17, DOA, DAS, SPA1, SPL3, NS, 4.5/6 and R22 of HO2/A and Hi-Lo, there is a difference of 4 points of TC.
For a TC of +10 in HO2/A, the advantage is approximately 3.3%, which is equivalent to a TC of +6 in Hi-Lo. This is obviously variable depending on the number of decks, penetration, rules, etc.

Sincerely,
Cac

[DSchles]

This is interesting because I was trying to remember, in my explanation, whether you have to take the square root of the ratio (which you do). I first did it without the square root, and multiplying by 0.625, would have yielded the +6 TC that you mention. But it wasn't the right way to do it.

It's disappointing that the wrong way gives the right answer and the "right" way gives the wrong answer! By the way, the methodology was actually described by Uston when he was the Big Player and the spotters would often use a different count and would then have to convert it to the count that he, Uston, used.

Don

[texrex]

wow

Yes. Square all of the Hi-Lo tag values and sum. Square all of the Hi-Opt II tags and sum. Form the ratio. Take the square root of the ratio. This is what you multiply the Hi-Opt II TC by to get Hi-Lo TC. And, this is simply an approximation. It isn't intended to be perfect.

So Hi-Lo tags squared = 10. Hi-Opt II tags squared = 16. Ratio is 10/16 = 5/8 = 0.625. Square root is 0.79 (call it 0.8). Multiply Hi-Opt II TC by 0.8 to get Hi-Lo TC (more or less!). So +10 becomes +8.

Don

[Cacarulo]

This is interesting because I was trying to remember, in my explanation, whether you have to take the square root of the ratio (which you do). I first did it without the square root, and multiplying by 0.625, would have yielded the +6 TC that you mention. But it wasn't the right way to do it.

It's disappointing that the wrong way gives the right answer and the "right" way gives the wrong answer! By the way, the methodology was actually described by Uston when he was the Big Player and the spotters would often use a different count and would then have to convert it to the count that he, Uston, used.

Don

Edited: I think I know where the problem is. In your calculation of the sum of squares of the Hi-Opt II tags, you are not considering the value assigned to the ace (-2) in the side count. Instead of 16, it should be 32.
Now, the square root of 10/32 is 0.6, which, when multiplied by 10, gives +6.

Sincerely,
Cac

[BigJer]

Yes. Square all of the Hi-Lo tag values and sum. Square all of the Hi-Opt II tags and sum. Form the ratio. Take the square root of the ratio. This is what you multiply the Hi-Opt II TC by to get Hi-Lo TC. And, this is simply an approximation. It isn't intended to be perfect.

So Hi-Lo tags squared = 10. Hi-Opt II tags squared = 16. Ratio is 10/16 = 5/8 = 0.625. Square root is 0.79 (call it 0.8). Multiply Hi-Opt II TC by 0.8 to get Hi-Lo TC (more or less!). So +10 becomes +8.

Don

I don't get this "Square all of the Hi-Lo tag values and sum. Square all of the Hi-Opt II tags and sum." Which means all the TC values?? TIA.

[Cacarulo]

I don't get this "Square all of the Hi-Lo tag values and sum. Square all of the Hi-Opt II tags and sum." Which means all the TC values?? TIA.

You have Hi-Lo: -1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 -1
If you square all tags you get: (-1)² + 1² + 1² + 1² + 1² + 1² + 0² + 0² + 0² + 4*(-1)² = 10
Now you can do the same with HO2/A and you'll get 32.
(-2)² + 1² + 1² + 2² + 2² + 1² + 1² + 0² + 0² + 4*(-2)² = 32


Sincerely,
Cac

[BigJer]

You have Hi-Lo: -1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 -1
If you square all tags you get: (-1)² + 1² + 1² + 1² + 1² + 1² + 0² + 0² + 0² + 4*(-1)² = 10
Now you can do the same with HO2/A and you'll get 18.

Sincerely,
Cac

Thanks. Since member of Mensa here couldn't figure it out! Lol.

[Cacarulo]

Note that it's 32 and not 18.

Sincerely,
Cac

[BigJer]

Note that it's 32 and not 18.

Sincerely,
Cac

I think with HiOpt II it's 28. Aces are neutral.
Anyways, 1**2 +1**2 + 2**2 + 2**2 + 1**2 + 1**2 + 4(2**2) = 28. I think..... Lol.

[Cacarulo]

I think with HiOpt II it's 28. Aces are neutral.
Anyways, 1**2 +1**2 + 2**2 + 2**2 + 1**2 + 1**2 + 4(2**2) = 28. I think..... Lol.

Yes, aces are neutral except for betting. When using a side count of aces, it takes the value of -2.

Sincerely,
Cac