The Price Of Intuition

[VonDox]

Please be offended.. You have bad legs and your employer the casino won't accomodate your disability or work with you to get training so you can deal at other games but going to Vegas will be better for you?? Right.. Dude I think you really just don't get the point here and probably are on the wrong forum, group or whatever. There is no obligation imposed upon you AT ALL and I have been told by a number of dealers that it's not their job to 'catch' card counters ( which by the way is 100% legal as opposed to stealing pop from a convience store which is your lame ass comparsion is just that ). Your job is to deal the cards, manage the game and create a positive gaming experiencing for the customers. END OF STORY. Yet, you decided to be a JERK of epic levels and cut the shoe thick on your own inititiave for some oddball reason for a casino that won't even work with you to help with your disability, that's just freaking nuts man. Your casino has to be nuts by the way since there are older people who don't like sitting at high tops and some like pulling right up with their little scooters to the table and playing that way at a low table. But, I digress... It's crazy that by this point you haven't figured out that what you did was insane and still try to justify it, but, please continue, as to why you feel you are wronged party in all of this and not the counter just using his brains..

[metronome]

haven't logged in for a long time.... and Redtop spouts some voodoo BS (other players influence your outcome).... oh my.....

[LicenseToTilt]

Please be offended.. You have bad legs and your employer the casino won't accomodate your disability or work with you to get training so you can deal at other games but going to Vegas will be better for you?? Right.. Dude I think you really just don't get the point here and probably are on the wrong forum, group or whatever. There is no obligation imposed upon you AT ALL and I have been told by a number of dealers that it's not their job to 'catch' card counters ( which by the way is 100% legal as opposed to stealing pop from a convience store which is your lame ass comparsion is just that ). Your job is to deal the cards, manage the game and create a positive gaming experiencing for the customers. END OF STORY. Yet, you decided to be a JERK of epic levels and cut the shoe thick on your own inititiave for some oddball reason for a casino that won't even work with you to help with your disability, that's just freaking nuts man. Your casino has to be nuts by the way since there are older people who don't like sitting at high tops and some like pulling right up with their little scooters to the table and playing that way at a low table. But, I digress... It's crazy that by this point you haven't figured out that what you did was insane and still try to justify it, but, please continue, as to why you feel you are wronged party in all of this and not the counter just using his brains..

Personal attacks will surely not convince the OP to stop outing counters and their table. Neither will belittling their career. The best hope you have to make a difference is to be kind and try to relate to them somehow and show your point of view. If anything you are likely helping this dealer build a vendetta against counters... We are trying to take money from their employer who keeps food on their table. And they likely feel that catering to us in any way would be a betrayal and would show a lack of integrity.

[VonDox]

Yeah.. you are probably right.. I guess I found his analogy comparing what the casino/dealer does vs what a convience store/clerk selling pop was just a bit too much and it sent me down a path I didn't need to go. It's a rough break in life to have a disability, no doubt about that and I wasn't attacking him rather his casino owner who wouldn't accomodate his disability. Aside from that, hopefully the discussion miight have clued him in that an industry that has gross earnings of over $37billion a year is probably not going to go broke because some counter is sitting at a table. Rather, by being a good dealer, he can make more money by servicing his patrons and enhancing their gaming experience. I guess that is the main point I was trying to make.. What's the old saying, "You can attract more bees with honey than vinegar.".. If I was a dealer, I would want to be the 'that guy' that when I am standing behind the table that patrons will get up and move over to my table to play with me, give me tips and have fun.

[21forme]

Please be offended.. You have bad legs and your employer the casino won't accomodate your disability or work with you to get training so you can deal at other games but going to Vegas will be better for you?? Right.. Dude I think you really just don't get the point here and probably are on the wrong forum, group or whatever. There is no obligation imposed upon you AT ALL and I have been told by a number of dealers that it's not their job to 'catch' card counters ( which by the way is 100% legal as opposed to stealing pop from a convience store which is your lame ass comparsion is just that ). Your job is to deal the cards, manage the game and create a positive gaming experiencing for the customers. END OF STORY. Yet, you decided to be a JERK of epic levels and cut the shoe thick on your own inititiave for some oddball reason for a casino that won't even work with you to help with your disability, that's just freaking nuts man. Your casino has to be nuts by the way since there are older people who don't like sitting at high tops and some like pulling right up with their little scooters to the table and playing that way at a low table. But, I digress... It's crazy that by this point you haven't figured out that what you did was insane and still try to justify it, but, please continue, as to why you feel you are wronged party in all of this and not the counter just using his brains..

Well said. The OP doesn't understand he's on an AP forum. He belongs on a gambling forum , such as WoV.

[redtop43]

The point that counting is not the same as stealing is well taken. My moving to Vegas and my dealing job (I hesitate to call it a "career") are totally unrelated.

I am completely engaged with my players. I act like I'm on their side, because (with two exceptions) I AM on their side. I scowl when I turn over a 7 after an upcard of for, and give a little cheer when the next card is a 3. I caution them on errors with my (nearly-) trademarked "Are you sure?" I try, up to a point, to talk them out of the side bets that are a gold mine for the casino (we have THREE). In fact, I declined to learn roulette in dealer school (my legs weren't as bad then) because I couldn't stand to see players toss their money down the 5.26% hole.

Yes, I have players in wheelchairs and scooters, but only a few. My favorite single player, although I've only seen him 2-3 times, is a man who brings his aging mother to the table in a wheelchair. They carry a note that says the mother has Alzheimers. I'm not sure how much of the game she understands, but he says "Hit, Mom" and she will enthusiastically bang her finger on the table. She is clearly having a lot of fun, and I have unbounded admiration for the guy (as well as being grateful that neither of my parents ever reached that stage of life). My best friend basically goes from her bed to her scooter, and her scooter back to bed, she can't even transfer from a wheelchair to a chair, so that's how she gambles. (She is truly remarkable; she is 82 and works - as an usher at Allegiant Stadium in Vegas.)

I don't think counters are "wrong" in what they do; if I did I wouldn't be a counter myself. But when I'm employed by the casino, I don't think there's anything wrong in acting to protect their interests. I don't think casinos are the "good guys" and counters the "bad guys."

[Intermediate]

I think it's fair that if you're going to do a job, do the best job you can. On the other hand if the Dealer job doesn't require you to identify counters, then you should focus on providing the best customer service and experience you can. After all, as a dealer you are the "front line" of the casino. Do what you are doing - give good advice, give customers a "good gamble" and a good social experience. Protect them from themselves. They will be return customers - that's what the casino wants. If the job did require you to out counters, I can't imagine how you would not feel conflicted. Any money lost to counters is a drop in the bucket in a big casino's bottom line. A good percentage of the counters you probably run into aren't good enough to play a winning game anyway. I don't understand how you don't deal roulette because of the 5.26% hole, and you steer people away from side bets that have a house edge of 3-7%+, but you're OK with ploppies losing at least 2% at BJ (the theo) and then work against a few smart players trying to make 0.5-1.5%.

[redtop43]

House edge of 3-7% on side bets? What planet are you living on?

We deal Lucky Ladies (16.8% house edge), 21+3 Extreme (12.8%), and Blazing 7's (unknown, but I know that for it to be a fair game the jackpot has to reach $500K; we've had it hit once at $330K and since then I don't remember it getting to $200K). At South Point in Vegas the side bet is Pair Square, which a house edge of 18%. Orleans has King's Bounty (similar to LL but not identical) and EZBust (16-30% depending what dealer up-cards you play on).

The theoretical house edge at Blackjack paying 3-2, with a few variations based on H/S17, surrender, etc., is around 0.6%.

[Intermediate]

The theoretical house edge at Blackjack paying 3-2, with a few variations based on H/S17, surrender, etc., is around 0.6%.

Most players don't play perfect basic strategy. The Theo is used by the house evaluate a player's overall worth (greater than 0.6% for BJ)

You sound like you need to decide if your are a counter with a side hustle as a dealer, or a dealer with knowledge of counting who works for the house (I think the latter). If I were in Casino Management, I wouldn't be happy with you steering customers away from side bets which are profitable for the house.

You might be better off on a dealer's web site.

[Freightman]

The theoretical house edge at Blackjack paying 3-2, with a few variations based on H/S17, surrender, etc., is around 0.6%.

I would say incorrect - general standard rules with LS hover around .5 depending on specifics. Further with NSR, house edge around .63-.67.

Do 2 identical sims except 1 with Surrender the other without. You will note a slower increase in wager on the NSR sim - reason being you have not yet reached breakeven point.

[K Love]

If I were in Casino Management, I wouldn't be happy with you steering customers away from side bets which are profitable for the house.

Yeah, that part is absolute nuts. In a casino filled with 80-90% RTP slot machines, he feels compelled to dissuade customers from placing side bets. Why not just tell all the players to not play at all, since he's being so "helpful"

[VonDox]

Well, I am out of this topic. This story has morphed from "Hey, I really screwed over someone I thought might be a counter" to "Hey, I am great guy who is looking out for the people who play at my table." Sorry,, just too weird for me now.. I wish him the best in his life in Vegas and please let us all know which casino you end up at so we don't go there... No offense, but I love playing blackjack and love using my skills that I have worked on for years so I can play a game that I have advantage at winning. I count on the dealers to do thier jobs and deal the cards, pay out bets correctly and overall create a good expierence. There are more than enough ploppies in the world who are more than willing to support table games who don't want to put in the work to have a slight advantage so that I can play and win. Best of luck to you... Time to move on for me.

[artoozi]

I am completely engaged with my players. I act like I'm on their side, because (with two exceptions) I AM on their side. I scowl when I turn over a 7 after an upcard of for, and give a little cheer when the next card is a 3. I caution them on errors with my (nearly-) trademarked "Are you sure?" I try, up to a point, to talk them out of the side bets that are a gold mine for the casino (we have THREE). In fact, I declined to learn roulette in dealer school (my legs weren't as bad then) because I couldn't stand to see players toss their money down the 5.26% hole.

I don't think counters are "wrong" in what they do; if I did I wouldn't be a counter myself. But when I'm employed by the casino, I don't think there's anything wrong in acting to protect their interests. I don't think casinos are the "good guys" and counters the "bad guys."

OMG, if you can't see the utter hypocrisy in these 2 statements... You protect the interests of the casinos by outing a card counter, but at the exact same time you talk people out of placing bets that BENEFIT the casino because you are "on the side" of the customers. You would of made a great politician.