Backoff "Type"

**redtop43** · 10-23-2023, 11:16 AM

I have been backed off by two casinos in Vegas. In both cases I was spreading $5-$50, then got nailed when I went to $5-75. I was a regular at both places (relative to Vegas terms; spending maybe 4-5 days a month on average there) and both places told me I could do anything in the casino except play blackjack. I was using a card and playing video poker and a little craps, eating in the restaurants, and with that bet spread I clearly wasn't trying to bang them out of 5 or 6 figures.

Were they unusually nice to me because I was a regular and also because I was clearly basically just trying to break even? Are backoffs usually this mild, or do they usually say "Begone and never darken our door again?"

As a related matter, I am planning to apply for a dealing job at one and maybe both of these places. If the subject of counting comes up, it is a good or a bad thing to say "Yes I know all about counting, I'm a counter." I'm thinking of the line in Casino where Ace Rothstein says that most of the guys working Eye-In-The-Sky were former cheaters themselves. To me, hiring a counter as a dealer would just say "We recognize that you do your best with the considerable skills you have, as a player you use them in one way, as a dealer you use them in a different way." But do they carry a grudge?

**21forme** · 10-23-2023, 12:48 PM

They were "nice" to you because you play low stakes. IOt's actually ridiculous to back off a player at those stakes, but casino execs aren't know for their intelligence.

Hard to predict how one of those places will react to your job app. I would think it would be a plus, but many places don't want dealers getting involved in game protection, as dealers are probably their greatest source of lost income.

**texrex** · 10-23-2023, 08:22 PM

there is no such a thing I am a regular or eating in the resurant or such that will entice the management to not back you off, if you are a a winner counter then they will back you off, tthey will still hire you though and they dont care if you count

**texrex** · 10-23-2023, 08:23 PM

backoff are usually that mild in vegas

**Aslanreturns** · 10-28-2023, 01:42 PM

My very first backoff was "You play too good for us. You can play any game in the casino but not Blackjack." That was at Southpoint about 8 years ago. After losing $500 I has switched tables. When the count turned pluss I increased my bet from $25 to $125. I immediately receive a tap on the shoulder from a very friendly, low key suit. I found a 9/6 slot nachine and proceeded to win $500 making me even for the day. I never darkened Southpoint's door again. The memory of my first backoff led me to learning how to disguise my play, lessening my percentage, but allowing me to stay for hours in the same casino and generally having winning sessions without detection.

**redtop43** · 10-29-2023, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Aslanreturns

My very first backoff was "You play too good for us. You can play any game in the casino but not Blackjack." That was at Southpoint about 8 years ago. After losing $500 I has switched tables. When the count turned pluss I increased my bet from $25 to $125. I immediately receive a tap on the shoulder from a very friendly, low key suit. I found a 9/6 slot nachine and proceeded to win $500 making me even for the day. I never darkened Southpoint's door again. The memory of my first backoff led me to learning how to disguise my play, lessening my percentage, but allowing me to stay for hours in the same casino and generally having winning sessions without detection.

I played at South Point for about 2 1/2 years before they caught me.

**Anonymous** · 11-02-2023, 10:32 PM

arent you the dealer that goes crying to your supervisor anytime you suspect a counter? you should already have plenty of firsthand experience with this

**redtop43** · 11-04-2023, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Anonymous

arent you the dealer that goes crying to your supervisor anytime you suspect a counter? you should already have plenty of firsthand experience with this

No, I'm the ex-dealer (quit last week because I'm moving) who tried to avoid involving my supervisors, because I could take care of it more quickly and efficiently than they did.

**Freightman** · 11-04-2023, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by redtop43

No, I'm the ex-dealer (quit last week because I'm moving) who tried to avoid involving my supervisors, because I could take care of it more quickly and efficiently than they did.

In my less artistic years, this little shit of a dealer decided decided to exercise his management discretion and purposely cheated causing a $600 swing. Then, numb nuts arbitrarily half shoed me. There was no reason for it as the entire building including janitorial and groundskeeping staff knew I was counting. These were not his decision(s) to make.

About 2 weeks later, a competent dealer somehow paid me off on my insured1 2x350 bet with doubles and splits galore - all losing hands. That was a $4200 swing, give or take - yes, if I recall correctly, insurance was also matched. I trust the comparison is clear.

Numb nuts exceeded his level of authority. He had no idea what management had or did not have in their minds. How did I know management knew - among other things around the same time frame, I hit 12v4 twice ending up with a 4 card 21 with dealer announcing to the pit - Freightman is counting cards again.

**Intermediate** · 11-04-2023, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by redtop43

No, I'm the ex-dealer (quit last week because I'm moving) who tried to avoid involving my supervisors, because I could take care of it more quickly and efficiently than they did.

I appreciate your initiative, but if every dealer decided when and where to take action by themselves, there would be no control or consistency/policy being applied at a company level. That’s no way to run a customer centric business. Let the pit and the eye handle that stuff.

**redtop43** · 11-05-2023, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Intermediate

I appreciate your initiative, but if every dealer decided when and where to take action by themselves, there would be no control or consistency/policy being applied at a company level. That’s no way to run a customer centric business. Let the pit and the eye handle that stuff.

That's an interesting point of view, but I can't imagine for a nanosecond that you're genuinely objective. Since most people reading/posting here are counters, if you are also one then you have a horse in this race.

Actually, the list of "job duties" for my position includes wording like "Assist in identifying card counters." Of course you can parse that phrase to mean that I "assist" by telling the pit manager and then washing my hands of the matter.

But I will immodestly claim that I'm smarter than the average bear. (For those of you too young to get the reference, Google "Yogi Bear.") And I will not apologize for doing my job the best I can.

**21forme** · 11-05-2023, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by redtop43

But I will immodestly claim that I'm smarter than the average bear.

I don't think so. If so, why would you take a crappy job where you have to dress up in a silly uniform, get paid next to nothing, and have smoker blown in your face all day?

**redtop43** · 11-05-2023, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by 21forme

I don't think so. If so, why would you take a crappy job where you have to dress up in a silly uniform, get paid next to nothing, and have smoker blown in your face all day?

Because I don't care about the uniform, there's no smoking allowed within about 150 feet of my table, and I do it for fun, not for money. To me, the only "crappy" thing about the job is that dealers get treated like interchangeable machine parts. If you think being a dealer is a crappy job, I suggest you not work as a dealer.