General Tipping Discussion

[redtop43]

I don't know how to compare my casino to others. We are in a cow pasture in Amish country. We've been open about 20 months. Most of the dealers are new to dealing, and the casino paid me $13 an hour while I was in training. Our base salary is $6.00 but goes up if you know more core games. Tokes average around $16-17 per hour.

To some extent this is an example of the freeloader problem in economics. If a particular country decides to tell the rest of the world "F-You, we're going to burn all the coal we want" they will still accrue whatever benefit derives from other countries' measures to reduce greenhouse gasses. If one player doesn't tip, it hurts the dealers. If no players tipped, casinos would basically cease to exist.

I will use restaurants as the best example of tips being embedded in the culture. Restaurants could - and some have - increased prices and abandoned the tipping model. It's awkward for casinos to "raise prices." They could go to 6:5 blackjack or triple-0 roulette wheels, or maybe make side bets mandatory. On the other hand, there's no other form of entertainment I can think of where the entertained can also make a profit. I never ever walk out of the opera with more money than I entered with. That's another perversity of the casino biz; that some people expect to make a profit.

[LVBear584]

...On the other hand, there's no other form of entertainment I can think of where the entertained can also make a profit. I never ever walk out of the opera with more money than I entered with. That's another perversity of the casino biz; that some people expect to make a profit.

However, the people who legitimately expect to make a profit in the long run are rarely "entertained" by the time spent in the hellholes known as casinos; most of that small subset of casino patrons are there strictly for the money, and would much rather be just about anywhere else and simply have the money deposited in their bank accounts without ever having to set foot in a casino.

[Zach Black]

That's another perversity of the casino biz; that some people expect to make a profit.

Do you understand the vast majority of the forum participants are advantage players? It's not entertainment. Skilled players work hard to have the tools to come out ahead.

It's possible to beat the casino, and part of that is not to give away your profits to dealers.

[21forme]

If no players tipped, casinos would basically cease to exist.

No. The casino would have to pay an appropriate wage. That's called market forces, and supply and demand.

Do you understand the vast majority of the forum participants are advantage players? It's not entertainment. Skilled players work hard to have the tools to come out ahead.

It seems not. I, too, wonder why redtop chose an AP forum to espouse his theories about casino play. Seems to me he'd be better off on a mostly-ploppy forum such as wizardofvegas.

[Freightman]

Do you understand the vast majority of the forum participants are advantage players? It's not entertainment. Skilled players work hard to have the tools to come out ahead.

And keep in mind they’re various skill levels - includes among other things
-counting
-index okay
-advanced strategies
-casino comportment

It's possible to beat the casino, and part of that is not to give away your profits to dealers

Depends on your min & max bets and your toke level. You can tip generously with $1 times on blackjacks

[redtop43]

I work in about as low-end a casino as you could find. We're in a cow pasture in Amish country, 1/2 mile from a turnpike exit. Our base salary for dealers is $6 an hour (more if you know more games) and the toke rate is around $16 on average. So that would be about $45K a year if you work full-time.

I doubt that the dealers making $75K+ have "no people skills." As in any industry, the best-paying jobs can be picky. Do you think any random server at Applebee's can get a job at Morton's Steakhouse?

It's not clear why some businesses have models where worker compensation depends heavily on tipping. Some restaurants are getting away from it. However, I would guess that the 90% "middle" tippers (i.e. excluding the 5% best and 5% worst) in restaurants probably tip 12-20%. The same interval in a casino clearly starts near zero (more than 5% of players tipping little or nothing).

I guess that in practice, a small number of generous high-rollers (I won't call them whales because to me that's a whole different tier) contribute the bulk of the tips. It's kind of unjust and silly. Then again, if it makes the business work, why not?

If there were no tips, casinos could not afford to deal games that give players a fair shot. 6:5 blackjack and triple-zero roulette would become the norm.

If you don't tip, you are basically a freeloader, not in a prejudicial sense of the term but the economic sense. A freeloader is someone who receives the benefits of other's actions without contributing themselves. Simple example; any country that builds a new coal-fired power plant.

[Hsiaodi]

“If there were no tips, casinos could not afford to deal games that give players a fair shot. 6:5 blackjack and triple-zero roulette would become the norm”

What?!
You’re kidding right? Plenty of games that gamblers play, that’s not “fair”

You’ll never convince anyone here. Why kept going?

Hollywood at Morgantown?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Corriander]

What this guy is saying is reasonably true I don't understand why this is causing so much friction.

advantage play exists because casinos exist, casinos exist because gamblers exist. Advantage play exist because gamblers exist.

everything is somwhat interconnected what wage dealers will accept depends on the inflows of their tip share. if their was no tipping wages would go up and the casino would as a buisness find another way to keep their buisness economical, be that through advertisements raising minimums be more sweaty who knows. In most mid sized casinos could tolerate paying a living wage while preserving a healthy profit/loss statement but they choose not to because it is in their interest to pay as little as employees will accept.

I am not saying you should tip you give up too much of a very thin margin but this person is right I am freeloading I feel zero guilt about that at all because I think casinos should be put out of buisness and regulated.

[21forme]

the casino would as a buisness find another way to keep their buisness economical,

Like , H17, 6:5 BJ and charging for parking?
Oh wait, they've already done that, but still don't pay their dealers a reasonable wage.

[Zach Black]

If you don't tip, you are basically a freeloader.

I win 1k in 20 minutes, but my expected value for the hands played is $50 with my 1% advantage. I give you a tip of $10 which is 20% of the expected win. You look at me and think F**** you! as I color up. I don't tip as I can get the F*** you look for free. So yes a freeloader.

[21forme]

I win 1k in 20 minutes, but my expected value for the hands played is $50 with my 1% advantage. I give you a tip of $10 which is 20% of the expected win. You look at me and think F**** you! as I color up. I don't tip as I can get the F*** you look for free. So yes a freeloader.

Well said!

One time, I was playing Mississippi Stud and hit quads for a 10K payout. I tipped the dealer a black chip. Later, a friend of mine told me he overheard the dealer telling his dealer buddies how cheap I was.

[redtop43]

Well said!

One time, I was playing Mississippi Stud and hit quads for a 10K payout. I tipped the dealer a black chip. Later, a friend of mine told me he overheard the dealer telling his dealer buddies how cheap I was.

I wouldn't have said that. Anybody who tips black will get a big smile in my book.

But we'd always rather have players who tip regularly than those who tip "big" rarely.

[artoozi]

If there were no tips, casinos could not afford to deal games that give players a fair shot. 6:5 blackjack and triple-zero roulette would become the norm.

If you don't tip, you are basically a freeloader, not in a prejudicial sense of the term but the economic sense. A freeloader is someone who receives the benefits of other's actions without contributing themselves. Simple example; any country that builds a new coal-fired power plant.

What kind of corporate, casino propaganda is this??

Playing blackjack with a small edge gives us basically a 51% chance of winning money. How the F*** is that freeloading when I RISK losing money? If I invest in the stock market and make a profit that is not freeloading, it's INVESTING. What about people that play the lottery and win, are they freeloaders? No, because they RISKED losing money to make money.

You are either a plant from the casino industry or just a salty, bitter dealer that hates card counters because they never gave you a tip.