Win/Loss is High for TC?

[jamison258]

Hello everyone. I have been inputting my casino's rules on to CVCX and here is the following result:


To me, this seems too good to be true. At TC 0 should it not be at the casino house edge?

My rules in Canada:
- H17 / DAS / ES10 / RSA / No Hole Card / OBO / 6-decks / Split up to 4 hands / 3-2 BJ
- Hi-Lo Sweet 16 + Fab 4 (Floor)

Calculation on websites give these set of rules around ~0.45 edge.

What am I doing wrong?

EDIT: It appears my photo of CVCX never got uploaded. Please see below as reference.
Screenshot 2023-07-18 231513.png

[Norm]

At the top of the results page, click Export, then the second export button, create an export file and email it to [email protected]

[Freightman]

Calculation on websites give these set of rules around ~0.45 edge.

You stated CVCX online also. Edge you’ve stated is the approx off the top house edge, a bit lower with RSA. Canadian jurisdictions offering that rule combo are limited. Some of the lower limit tables have RSA, some don’t.

Wizard site also has a manual type blackjack calculator where you can calculate just about anything.

add on - you’ll find this helpful
https://wizardofodds.com/games/black...le-variations/

[jamison258]

Hi Freightman. I’ve been playing for a while now but have not the past year. Did something change? I played last week and those appeared to be the rules. The only thing I am cant recall is OBO. I am able to surrender vs everything but A. Can RSA. Split up to 4. What would be typical rules in Canada now? I’m in Alberta.

Also I am using the VCX software, not online.

[DSchles]

Hello everyone. I have been inputting my casino's rules on to CVCX and here is the following result:


To me, this seems too good to be true. At TC 0 should it not be at the casino house edge?

My rules in Canada:
- H17 / DAS / ES10 / RSA / DAS / No Hole Card / OBO / 6-decks / Split up to 4 hands (no ace resplits) / 3-2 BJ
- Hi-Lo Sweet 16 + Fab 4 (Floor)

Calculation on websites give these set of rules around ~0.45 edge.

What am I doing wrong?

First, you've contradicted yourself with the rules. First you wrote RSA (resplit aces), then later you specifically wrote "no ace resplits." So, which is it? You also wrote DAS twice, so we get the idea!

With the better rules, the house edge off the top, for the basic strategist, is 0.307. With no ace resplits, it increases to 0.376.

Note that the edge at TC = 0 is NOT the same thing as the above, as you are using the Sweet 16 and Fab 4, and so you are standing on 16 vs. T and 12 vs. 4 at TC = 0, as well as surrendering 15 vs. T. They will certainly decrease the house edge. You'd have to do a sim to see by how much.

Don

[jamison258]

Oh god you’re right! I will correct this. I meant to say you can resplit aces but if it is any other card you cant double.

[DSchles]

Oh god you’re right! I will correct this. I meant to say you can resplit aces but if it is any other card you cant double.

OK, off-the-top BS house edge is about 0.307. Clearly, at TC= 0, it will be less for the counter.

Don

[Freightman]

OK, off-the-top BS house edge is about 0.307. Clearly, at TC= 0, it will be less for the counter.

Don

@Jamison258
Yes, Alberta rules are OBO.

For interests sake, I’m going to check Dons numbers - think he’s providing optimistic response, though I’ll know shortly.

[Freightman]

@Jamison258
Yes, Alberta rules are OBO.

For interests sake, I’m going to check Dons numbers - think he’s providing optimistic response, though I’ll know shortly.

I thought Don’s -.307 to be low. I find Norms QFit online calculator to be high (-.468). DA2 inferred. Still haven’t gone downstairs to my CVCX. Haven’t checked Wizards site as yet. Kinda sorta think it’s in the middle around -.36. Heading upstairs to my den. Snyder has some manual calcs by decks and rules.

[DSchles]

They aren't MY calculations; they're the house edge. We don't take a vote on it! Use the numbers on BJA3 pages 492-493 and see what you get. Plug the rules into k_c's CA and see what you get.

I find it almost impossible to believe that we would dispute what the BS edge of a game is. As for Norm's calculator, I've already discussed this with him. His line that says "Late surrender vs. 10 or ES10" is somewhat ambiguous. Which is it? They're obviously not the same thing.

Meanwhile, just do me a favor, please, and trust the math. Or do it yourself.

Don

[Cacarulo]

@Jamison258
Yes, Alberta rules are OBO.

For interests sake, I’m going to check Dons numbers - think he’s providing optimistic response, though I’ll know shortly.

I just did that Instead of OBO I used USA rules which are equivalent.

6D,H17,DOA,DAS,SPA1,SPL3,ES10/LSv9 = -0.3770%
6D,H17,DOA,DAS,SPA3,SPL3,ES10/LSv9 = -0.3089%

From what I understood, it's about ESv10 and LSv9, but not LSvA, is that correct?
Because if LSvA were allowed, the expected values off the top would be even better:

6D,H17,DOA,DAS,SPA1,SPL3,ES10/LSv9/LSvA = -0.3566%
6D,H17,DOA,DAS,SPA3,SPL3,ES10/LSv9/LSvA = -0.2884%

Sincerely,
Cac

[DSchles]

6D,H17,DOA,DAS,SPA1,SPL3,ES10/LSv9 = -0.3770%
6D,H17,DOA,DAS,SPA3,SPL3,ES10/LSv9 = -0.3089%

Exactly. Basically, same numbers I got. Interestingly, k_c is showing 0.3064, and I'm not sure why. The numbers on pages 492-493, are much closer to yours and differ only at the fourth decimal. As always, when you run a sim, the rules interact; when you add or subtract numbers from a page, they can't do that.

Don

[Freightman]

I just did that Instead of OBO I used USA rules which are equivalent.

6D,H17,DOA,DAS,SPA1,SPL3,ES10/LSv9 = -0.3770%
6D,H17,DOA,DAS,SPA3,SPL3,ES10/LSv9 = -0.3089%

From what I understood, it's about ESv10 and LSv9, but not LSvA, is that correct?
Because if LSvA were allowed, the expected values off the top would be even better:

6D,H17,DOA,DAS,SPA1,SPL3,ES10/LSv9/LSvA = -0.3566%
6D,H17,DOA,DAS,SPA3,SPL3,ES10/LSv9/LSvA = -0.2884%

Sincerely,
Cac

From what I understood, it's about ESv10 and LSv9, but not LSvA, is that correct?
Because if LSvA were allowed, the expected values off the top would be even better:

yes, and much better.

interesting exercise. SPI (Snyder Profit I def) very close to Don’s numbers. 3 methods with differing results.