Question regarding small bet spreads.

**Northbend** · 07-07-2023, 09:42 PM

I'm pretty sure I know the answer here, but I have made false assumptions before, so I want to double check. Sorry for the newbie question.

As I'm getting my game dialed, I want to continue to practice somewhere that I play rated. The casino has a comp program that eliminates the house edge (it actually surpasses it if done right, but lets assume it's a break even game). If we are assuming an actual break even game plus using high-lo (or any legit level one counting system), without mistakes, ANY bet spread would create positive EV however tiny it may be, correct? like 1-2, 1-4, or whatever in a shoe game.

Another way to ask this would be, taking the comps out of the equation, any bet spread no matter how small, is better than no bet spread right? Even if it is only reducing negative EV if not eliminating it. Variance swings aside, just thinking pure EV.

**DrKysterstien** · 07-07-2023, 11:40 PM

You are thinking on the right track. Breakeven game + 0 mistakes + "best bet spread for your bankroll" = + EV. I will point out with a smaller bet spread the hr/EV will take more time... a lot of time, but you will generate + EV minus a couple downswings which is obv.

-Dr.

**Northbend** · 07-08-2023, 06:08 AM

Thanks DrKysterstein.

**DSchles** · 07-08-2023, 01:23 PM

Specify the precise rules, including the penetration. A 1-2 spread will NOT beat all shoe games. It depends on the rules.

Don

**Northbend** · 07-08-2023, 02:30 PM

Ah, yes I did leave the rules out. The rules are pretty mediocre. 6D, H17, DAS, Late surrender, no re-splitting aces. Penetration is dealer dependent, could be five out of six decks in play, or worse. I’m sure there’s no way in hell that a 1-2 spread would give any advantage on its own. What I was wondering is if a small spread would be better than nothing while I’m getting comfortable using the system. Or is there a way it could be a detriment? In this particular joint, the comps do pretty much nullify the house edge when using perfect basic strategy. I was actually thinking of just using a 1-3 spread as I would prefer not to get removed from this particular property as I do enjoy the comps here. I want to start working with a small spread for a time while I’m working on being able to act natural, keep up conversations, etc.. the larger bet spreads would come later and at different properties.

**DSchles** · 07-09-2023, 08:35 AM

So, what you propose is fine. Just don't expect to make any money from the BJ-playing aspect.

Don

**Northbend** · 07-09-2023, 11:17 AM

Makes sense! Thank you Don.

**Cacarulo** · 07-09-2023, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Northbend

Ah, yes I did leave the rules out. The rules are pretty mediocre. 6D, H17, DAS, Late surrender, no re-splitting aces. Penetration is dealer dependent, could be five out of six decks in play, or worse. I’m sure there’s no way in hell that a 1-2 spread would give any advantage on its own. What I was wondering is if a small spread would be better than nothing while I’m getting comfortable using the system. Or is there a way it could be a detriment? In this particular joint, the comps do pretty much nullify the house edge when using perfect basic strategy. I was actually thinking of just using a 1-3 spread as I would prefer not to get removed from this particular property as I do enjoy the comps here. I want to start working with a small spread for a time while I’m working on being able to act natural, keep up conversations, etc.. the larger bet spreads would come later and at different properties.

Don is correct, it is very difficult to obtain a positive SCORE with a 1-2 spread, although it is not impossible. It depends on the system you use (it has to be at least a level 2), good penetration, and using a significant number of indices. For 6D, H17, DOA, DAS, SPA1, SPL3, LS, 5/6 using CAC2, the SCORE is 0.15. Obviously, you're not going to become a millionaire

.

Sincerely,
Cac

**Secretariat** · 07-09-2023, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Cacarulo

For 6D, H17, DOA, DAS, SPA1, SPL3, LS, 5/6 using CAC2, the SCORE is 0.15.

Hello Cac!
1) is this CAC2 with indices?
2) is this solo play or 4 players?

**Cacarulo** · 07-09-2023, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Secretariat

Hello Cac!
1) is this CAC2 with indices?
2) is this solo play or 4 players?

1) It's CAC2 with R52 and L18 indices.
2) Yes, it's solo play, although with four players it's almost the same (0.19). Always talking about a spread of 1-2 and 5/6.

Sincerely,
Cac

**Northbend** · 07-09-2023, 08:52 PM

Thank you Cacarulo! Your CAC2 system sounds great, and I will definitely check it out if/when moving on to a level 2 count.

I think I may have over-complicated my question. If I were to ask it again, I would ask “ regardless of the rules of the blackjack game, if you are using a card counting system that creates an edge (+EV) at a larger bet spread, it would mean theoretically, not including variance swings, that even using a smaller bet spread that does not create an edge, would at least reduce the amount of negative EV you are receiving from this game. So over time, you would lose less than if you were just playing straight basic strategy, am I correct? To play with a small bet spread correctly, is better than playing with no bet spread at all, right?”

**Freightman** · 07-10-2023, 12:56 AM

To play with a small bet spread correctly, is better than playing with no bet spread at all, right?”

Yes. Further, as you stated in your OP, comps equal house edge. On that basis, any spread should put you into + territory. Appears to be an ideal play where you stay strategy for out of town trips, provided hours played to achieve comps do not cut into your real earning hours.