thanks DonOriginally Posted by DSchles
that's a pretty healthy increase__________!!!
if you're playing for a couple days and your normal expectation in dollars is $1k you would expect $110 to $120 more
niche
.
Of course it is! Any advantage you can gain is always welcome, even if the marginal gain were smaller.
That's right.if you're playing for a couple days and your normal expectation in dollars is $1k you would expect $110 to $120 more
niche
.
Sincerely,
Cac
I wanted to make a correction to the table I published in the announcement. The RPC SCOREs are lower than those shown there.
In reality, those SCOREs correspond to the FELT-F system, which has the same tags as RPC, although the TC calculation is done differently.
The corrected table would be as follows:
table.png
For those who have already acquired the system, the PDF has also been updated, which you can request from Norman.
I apologize for the inconvenience.
Sincerely,
Cac
In this thread, Davethebuilder wrote:
In Australia, the dealer does not take a Hole Card and No Hole Card rules (OBO, BB+1, OBBO) are used to compensate the player who splits a pair and the dealer turns over a natural. As a result, modified Basic Strategies are used and slightly different indices for the top 18 deviations. Also, we do not have surrender in this country. I assume that using your system with these sometimes unique rule sets may require changes so we can play a more accurate game.
Curiosity, perhaps? Or nostalgic memories, may be. The question is that, after looking at Michael Shackleford (The Wizard of Odds) excellent report regarding the Australian Casinos, the first thing that caught my attention was the similarity of the basic strategy table with the one I used to have, while dealing with the British Clubs, twenty and even thirty years ago. After a paused look, minor differences began to appear. The basic strategy of the Australian variant BB + 1, seems to me to like a kind of hybrid, between the classic European one (w/db9) mixed somehow with certain American advantages. I have only found three discrepancies with the European ones.
11 v T ? double, instead of hitting (ENHC)
8,8 v T ? split instead of hitting
A,A v A ? split, instead of hitting
Despite these advantages, dealing with the Australian shoes, does not strike to me as “a walk in the garden”, precisely. The reason lies mainly in the widespread use of eight-deck games.
FWITW, these are the results I´ve got after a quick analysis:
TD values
6dks, s17, das, db9, spl3, spa1 and Busted bets + 1
BSE = -0.511926
8dks and same rules
BSE = -0.536535
6dks, s17, das, db9, spl3, spa1 and OBBO
EV = -0.533039
8dks and same rules
EV = -0.558003
Restrictions on the spl3 rule are more detrimental, obviously. Australian Casinos, who have jumped the fence adopting the h17 rule (A Northern Nevada´s courtesy, btw) should be avoided. Here the double combination is simple too tough. Not worth the fight, for what I´ve seen.
Moral? Both rules, European and Australian ones seem to play in the same league. Well, Cacarulo´s new card counting system works pretty fine against ENHC rules, while keeping its status. I haven´t figured it out any reason whatsoever, for discrepancies in its power when dealing with the Australian ones. Just the opposite, doing slightly better, belongs to the realm of a truly possibility.
Hopefully helpful,
Zenfighter
Over the last week I've been playing with CAC2. There's a saying that "once a blackjack player learns CC, he never goes back." I strongly agree the saying goes hand&hand with CAC2. Yes, it is slightly harder to master than HiLo ect. lvl 1/2 count systems but it's more than worth the effort. The founder of CAC2 really put his money where his mouth is. Nothing but high regards. Just goes to show BJ is still evolving with no shadow of dying or "becoming a stand still game." +1
-Dr.
Zenfighter,
A few points…
Mike’s article is out of date but was generally correct at the time of printing in 2013 although the BB+1 and OBBO charts are shown with the reader in mind, in order to graphically highlight the differences in Basic Strategy when playing against those two Hole Card rules. The OBBO game never actually existed in Sydney, NSW.
Australian Blackjack is played with mainly 6 decks, however, both 4 and 8 deck games do exist but are relatively uncommon.
The quickest way to generate Basic Strategy charts for our NHC games is to use MGP’s Combinatorial Analyser which covers our Blackjack and Pontoon (Spanish 21) rules. It can be seen from those charts that there are minor variations in Basic Strategy due to our unique rule sets and also minor variations with the generic US charts. To analyse betting and playing strategies CV Data and CVCX can be used as these programs also cover our rules, however, CV Blackjack does not.
To the best of my knowledge we do not have D9 or SP3 in this country. The doubling rules are D9-11 and in one case, DOA, and the highest split quota that I have played against is SP2 in Tasmania.
H17 games dealt from a Shufflemaster 126 CSM are becoming more common on main floors but the HL areas usually deal S17 games from shoes.
Note that US games are played after the dealer has checked for a Blackjack and if he/she has a natural the round is terminated but in Australia this information is not known until the end of the round because our dealers universally do not take a Hole Card, hence our unique Hole Card rules. As such, hole carding, as an advantage play, is not possible.
All our games are designed with a House Edge greater than 0.5% for the flat betting perfect Basic Strategy player. This is due to the number of decks and the mediocre rule set and when a counting system is used it produces a low SCORE meaning that the player will need a sizeable bankroll to avoid being wiped out on a bad run. The low SCORE figure also highlights the risk which is evident in the large bankroll swings inherent in our games. Wonging and Back betting with a large bankroll can help improve results.
Note that our min bets in the HL areas used to be between $50 and $100 but are now more commonly $50, since the pandemic. This is another reason why a substantial bankroll is required. We do not have $5 or $10 games here.
A typical modern Australian rule set using 6 decks on 3:2 games is S17, DAS, D9-11, SP1, SPA1, BB+1 and No Surrender…HE 0.56. Changing to H17…HE 0.78 which shows how bad that rule change is and why the more educated HL players will generally avoid it.
Casino Enemy No.1
Wow! That´s not “A few points…”. Definitely a very good report on the current BJ´s playing conditions in the Australian casinos. Thanks a lot for sharing it with all of us.
A few comments:
To the best of my knowledge, we do not have D9 or SP3 in this country.
When I said the rule db9 is in effect, that´s mean in Europe/US doubling on 9, 10 and 11 only. Also, db10 (Northern Nevada e.g.,) means doubling on 10 and 11 only. It´s a convention, you know.
A typical modern Australian rule set using 6 decks on 3:2 games is S17, DAS, D9-11, SP1, SPA1, BB+1 and No Surrender…HE 0.56.. Changing to H17…HE 0.78
Yeah! Spl1 is quite detrimental.
BSE = -0.564442
Not to mention the other one with h17.
BSE = -0.782703
Zenfighter
Hi all I am a novice counter very interested in the product I have CVBJ and CVX and an easier higher output than Wong halves sounds like a dream I do have a few questions and concerns none of which would realistically be dealbreakers.
I Don't understand the math of score and while I wouldn't ask anyone to fully explain it I am curious of how it intersects with concepts of volatility.
does the increased efficiencies in higher score already utilize/leverage different volatility characteristics of a counting system. or is the increased efficiency if you assumed a standard ramp for each system.
(I ask because logically I think one could assume that a lower volatility would allow a more aggressive betting at each count with the same RoR.)
Hi-Lo is an excellent system not only because of the simplicity of adding and subtracting 1 and 0. but also because the tags work out to be very easily mentally clumped groups
2-6
7-9
10-A
I am not looking for hints as to the tags but for those who have seen and can review the product did you find the tags reasonably easy to mentally clump or was it more a process of rote memorization.
Hi-Lo also seems so powerful because of its massive applicability and current material applying it to every rule that's exists in blackjack (likely a slight exageration.)
as someone who hasnt reached the point where I would feel comfortable to design and sim rules yet how robust do you think current information is and where do you see it going in the future?
(obviously it could 100% still be worth it to know both CAC2 for the situations that are already "solved" And Hi-Lo for the more out there rules like a joker in the deck or what not.)
Last edited by Corriander; 07-18-2023 at 09:03 PM.
If you’re not committed to a count system, whatever you decide, learn it perfectly. On the one hand, hi lo has a monster amount of literature supporting it with halves being the perfect go to for upgrading. On the other hand CAC2 has simplicity with both high PE and BC. It would seem from data reported to date that you would achieve better results with CAC2 and it would take likely several years of play to gain the nuance power knowledge that halves with tweaks would do for you.
@CAC
While out of jurisdiction in questionable WiFi security settings, I said I would buy CAC2 simply to see if there was something to learn. I have not done so as yet. I am now back in my stomping grounds and prior to purchase, I’m reminded of a shopping sojourn some years back to a Chassidic gift shop in Brooklyn on a Friday afternoon right before closing for Shabbos.
I wanted to buy several religious items (with a selection of items not available at home) potentially adding a few hundred dollars to his weekly tally allowing him to more thoroughly enjoy his Shabbos meal. I encouraged the gentlemen to consider a new program for his Canadian customers to increase their purchases. Giving it the name - Cross Border Currency Exchange Program - was a winner for him and he agreed to the concept - and I pass on that gauntlet to you.
Regardless of your answer, I’ll make the purchase in the next day or so.
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