Card counting Spanish 21.

[Northbend]

Sorry in advance for the newbie question. I’ve played blackjack and Spanish 21 using basic strategy for both games for a few years now. Between some basic comp husting, finding weak dealers and having positive variance I’ve managed to end up ahead at this point. Now I’ve got the notion that I want to add card counting into the mix. I’m trying to decide which direction to go next, attempting to learn Blackjack or Spanish 21. The advantage to counting Spanish 21 for me would be the fact that there is a considerable amount of it in the market where I live. It’s even beginning to outnumber the blackjack tables. Am I opening up a can of worms getting into Spanish 21? I don’t mind spending a considerable amount of time learning it, but in reading some past threads, it seems people have hinted that this game has wild variance (which makes sense considering the re-double factor),and therefore I imagine it might require an incredibly large bankroll to get started at the red ship level? I’ve read Katrina Walkers book cover to cover and been practicing keeping a running count at home and in the casino for past few months but nothing further. I could also just learn to count regular old blackjack. Any guidance or wisdom would be appreciated if any of you are so inclined. Thank you.

[DrKysterstien]

The house edge for Spanish 21 is generally better than the house edge in blackjack. If you ignore the effect of those jackpot hands, which come up as rarely as you might expect, the house edge for Spanish 21 is about 0.4%. This assumes, of course, that you're playing with perfect basic strategy. It's probly not worth your time as a card counter. However as a gambler, keeping a very simple count can at least lower the 3%~ house edge on the bet. Any game you chose will have their + and - but which one do you enjoy the most and will want to continue playing for years to come. I will say that 98% of the threads/ forms you reach out to for "counting cards" will fall in the blackjack section. That should tell you something.

-Dr.

[Jabberwocky]

43.3936° N, 124.2189° W
For this game you would be well advised employing a 2-pronged strategy; either heads up or back count.

[Northbend]

Thank you for your reply Dr, appreciate the input! To follow up, you said “It's probly not worth your time as a card counter. However as a gambler, keeping a very simple count can at least lower the 3%~ house edge on the bet”. If you care to elaborate, why do you feel it would not be worth it to count Spanish, and what would a “very simple count” be? Again, thanks for the response.

[Ole]

I have a slightly different perspective on counting with Spanish 21:

YES,

It's highly valuable and has been very profitable for our team.

Spanish 21, if counted effectively and played correctly, has excellent odds and one can generate great EV, quite comparable and sometimes better than blackjack.
Walker's book is based on Hi-Lo, so by learning it you can switch off easily between the two games. Just use Walker's unbalanced IRC with Spanish, and a balanced zero IRC version for Blackjack, and get new number charts.
I do this with my own linked count systems very easily, and most profitably! Depending on who has better penetration, we often start at the Spanish tables. Heat is much less there as well.

So, go for it. Learn both games, and feel free to focus more on Spanish 21. It's a great game to use advantage play.

BTW, don't give yourself away, but where are some cool places you've found with good Spanish 21 games, are they S17, H17, DDD, Pontoon, 6D, 8D, penatration good? In past years, I've seen many from New England, riverboats, WA, and some classic cities in between.

Cheers,
Ole


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[Northbend]

Ah, thank you for the inspiration and info Ole, much appreciated! Ill go for it

As you can tell from my post, I’m no expert, but the games I’ve found are mostly in Washington state, USA. I have found no S17 whatsoever, but loads of H17 6D with redoubling allowed. On average, the penetration I have observed is better than the blackjack games, and I have seen a couple of dealers that take virtually nothing off the top.

[Ole]

Excellent,
and thanks for the recon. I've played S17 games in Connecticut, Indiana and Mississippi in the past. DDD in Maine. Spanish is good in Atlantic City too.

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[Mr21]

Excellent,
and thanks for the recon. I've played S17 games in Connecticut, Indiana and Mississippi in the past. DDD in Maine. Spanish is good in Atlantic City too.

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May I ask where that was in Indiana?

[moo321]

Gary used to have a great Spanish game at Majestic Star, but they closed during covid. Only Spanish games left in Indiana as far as I know are in Gary. Neither one is great, 1.5 decks cut off.