Blackjack dead for advantage players? [WoO]

[Cohiba]

Hi everyone,

I was watching a livestream recently with The Wizard of Odds (many of you in this forum probably know him), within which he received a question from the audience asking whether card counting in blackjack was still a thing.

He answered that it has died down a lot compared to previous decades and estimated that about 20% of advantage players remaining were playing blackjack.

What are your thoughts on his response? Do you agree with this statement, and if so, which games have advantage players moved to? To my knowledge casinos do not have any other variable edge game other than blackjack, so I'm really curious.

Thanks,

The Patriot

I don't see the opinion that 20% of APs are BJ card counters as a commentary on the current and/or future state of BJ card counting. I see it more as just an assessment that there are other opportunities out there that folks may be pursuing for a variety of reasons. The fact that something that is good or better than what you were previously doing doesn't necessarily mean that the original activity was declining or poor. If you are willling to grind there is still an ability to make decent $$ through BJ card counting. Put me in the category of someone who has moved on from BJ card counting but still thinks of it as a viable play. It just not the best use of my time/energies.

Cohiba

[Archvaldor]

Hi everyone,

I was watching a livestream recently with The Wizard of Odds (many of you in this forum probably know him), within which he received a question from the audience asking whether card counting in blackjack was still a thing.

He answered that it has died down a lot compared to previous decades and estimated that about 20% of advantage players remaining were playing blackjack.

What are your thoughts on his response? Do you agree with this statement, and if so, which games have advantage players moved to? To my knowledge casinos do not have any other variable edge game other than blackjack, so I'm really curious.

Thanks,

The Patriot

First, I assume we are talking about the US only since sports betting is vastly more accessible in large parts of the rest of the world, while pro blackjack players barely exist outside the US.

Second modern card counting is basically only viable with what to most people is a vast amount of money, so I doubt it is 20% even in the US alone.

Poker has fewer barriers to entry and is mainstream.

[MJ1]

And, I don't know any AP who has stopped his trade due to casino illegality.

Actually I have heard of a few APs who stopped playing due to being backroomed and harassed. One player on a well known team was taken to the backroom and handcuffed to a chair in a dark room for several hours. Upon being released he was so shaken up that he never played again. I don't think you would disagree that backrooming a player for card counting is illegal. At least it is according to Rob Nersesian.

What if you are just starting out, experience a 5k win, and then go to cash out your chips only to have them confiscated? Now what are you going to do? Sue the casino? That takes lots of money. Most beginners don't have the funds to hire an attorney to seek amends. The court costs and legal fees are simply too much to bear while for the casino that is not even a drop in the bucket. Such an experience can be quite discouraging for a rookie player and might cause them to quit.

MJ

[Norm]

I was responding to a post about technology.

[Freightman]

Actually I have heard of a few APs who stopped playing due to being backroomed and harassed. One player on a well known team was taken to the backroom and handcuffed to a chair in a dark room for several hours. Upon being released he was so shaken up that he never played again. I don't think you would disagree that backrooming a player for card counting is illegal. At least it is according to Rob Nersesian.

What if you are just starting out, experience a 5k win, and then go to cash out your chips only to have them confiscated? Now what are you going to do? Sue the casino? That takes lots of money. Most beginners don't have the funds to hire an attorney to seek amends. The court costs and legal fees are simply too much to bear while for the casino that is not even a drop in the bucket. Such an experience can be quite discouraging for a rookie player and might cause them to quit.

MJ

Dark room, several hours, handcuffed - I think it depends on tribal or non tribal in terms of achieving a significant judgement. Even tribal, I believe Nersesian had a tribal case a few years ago where the employees were sued and judgement secured in their personal capacities, including state police. Maybe someone can verify that.

[Freightman]

Dark room, several hours, handcuffed - I think it depends on tribal or non tribal in terms of achieving a significant judgement. Even tribal, I believe Nersesian had a tribal case a few years ago where the employees were sued and judgement secured in their personal capacities, including state police. Maybe someone can verify that.

@Norm
the link below now several years old, contains personal names of 3 ap’s suing tribal casino ‘employees in their personal capacities. It is right on point with valuable information though feel free to delete the link or edit in some fashion. I know you have experience with edits and deletions.

https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/pistor...a-no-890019953

Al Rogers will almost certainly know if the 3 individuals are still active or not.

[Norm]

I was responding to a post about technology.

[Freightman]

I was responding to a post about technology.

Youve already said that in post 17, however, if you’re repeating yourself in response to my post 19, the point was the link I provided, though really on point, gives the personal names of 3 ap’s. An aged article, the info may or may not be considered as still revealing and thus, may need to be edited.

[Norm]

. It is right on point with valuable information though feel free to delete the link or edit in some fashion. I know you have experience with edits and deletions.

I have no idea what you mean by this. Why would I edit or delete anything like this?

[Freightman]

I have no idea what you mean by this. Why would I edit or delete anything like this?

Though an older article, link from post gives real names of ap’s. Value of post is content from link

[Sharky]

..... One player on a well known team was taken to the backroom and handcuffed to a chair in a dark room for several hours....
MJ

US casinos have (state) police facilities on site...so if you somehow are unfortunate to end up there???..sure they hand cuff you, absolutely....ankle shacklings?....4sure

[21forme]

US casinos have (state) police facilities on site

That's the exception rather than the rule.

[MJ1]

US casinos have (state) police facilities on site...so if you somehow are unfortunate to end up there???..sure they hand cuff you, absolutely....ankle shacklings?....4sure

Do tribal casinos have state police on site? I've never heard of this.

MJ