Double counting middle cards

**Secretariat** · 07-13-2022, 04:50 PM

Please stay out of this IC

**Secretariat** · 07-13-2022, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by iCountNTrack

wow, i am sorry i just can't kudos to Norm and Don for their patience

What's the problem man?
Keeping four counts and deriving information from it is so hard?
Else?

**Norm** · 07-13-2022, 05:00 PM

Why would you ask a PhD and long time expert in the field to stay out of this?

You are simply wrong, as you were with CSM cheating. You need to listen more, read more, and stop hypothesizing without a better understanding. You are ignoring (and insulting) those with decades of experience each and taking a lot of time that could be better used. This is why you will sometimes receive short responses. We only have a brief time on this planet.

**Gramazeka** · 07-13-2022, 05:01 PM

I'm sure you'll have more effect in shoe games with Halves ( the best) or Hi Lo + unb ten count. Bet on Halves ( Hi Lo ), and insure and play hands ( PE ) on ten count. As far as I remember, there is a very interesting hand draw ( ten count ), unlike other systems. I'm even interested in comparing my recipe with Hi Opt 2.

Can Cacarulo help? ))

p.s. This is if you really like side counts...

**aceside** · 07-13-2022, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Secretariat

@ Aceside
Best strategy is how a computer would play (according to BJStrat) knowing the exact deck composition. Insurance was irrelevant here since the goal was to see how 789s could affect SCORES under three different deck compositions.

What? I haven't learned how to calculate SCORE but I am pretty sure that it includes the EV contribution from insurance; therefore, insurance is very relevant. But, how much?

Insurance is non-relevant in basic strategy.

As others have said here, the density of middle cards (7, 8, 9) will affect the probability of a blackjack, for both the dealer and the player. However, a player's blackjack is usually three times more important than a dealer's one.

**Secretariat** · 07-13-2022, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Norm

Why would you ask a PhD and long time expert in the field to stay out of this?

You are simply wrong, as you were with CSM cheating. You need to listen more, read more, and stop hypothesizing without a better understanding. You are ignoring (and insulting) those with decades of experience each and taking a lot of time that could be better used. This is why you will sometimes receive short responses. We only have a brief time on this planet.

I am wrong with what exactly Norm? Tell me. I mostly asked questions.

There's one good reason I asked ICT to stay out. He doesn't help. He closes threads. No discussion.
I am asking ICT what's wrong? Hopefully he will say something.
I would be more than happy to discuss with him.

I never mentioned anything about cheating EVER where did you get that?

**Gramazeka** · 07-13-2022, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by aceside

Insurance is non-relevant in basic strategy.

1. You can always play according to the basic strategy, but put insurance, according to the count.

2. Why did you decide that 7-8-9 affects the BJ frequency?

**aceside** · 07-13-2022, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Gramazeka

1. You can always play according to the basic strategy, but put insurance, according to the count.

2. Why did you decide that 7-8-9 affects the BJ frequency?

You are correct. I haven't thought this out all the way.

**Secretariat** · 07-13-2022, 05:59 PM

Let's make a test here. Who can figure it out?
Let's say we have a HiLo count of +16 and side counts of 14 (aces), 44 (789s), 64 (Tens)
With that information, it's pathetically easy to figure out how many 23456s are left in the shoe.
From there, you can figure out the total number of cards left in the shoe.
Is it that hard?

**Gramazeka** · 07-13-2022, 06:05 PM

It's generally correct to hunt for the increased probability of A and tens in the remaining decks. Everything else will give you a meager effect. No PE will pull out what BC (Halves) and IC ( unb Ten count ) give you. Especially with shoes game.

**Secretariat** · 07-13-2022, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gramazeka

It's generally correct to hunt for the increased probability of A and tens in the remaining decks. Everything else will give you a meager effect. Especially with shoes game.

I understand what you're saying Gramazeka. I don't know what's the exact gain yet and I will need advanced sims
to find out. In the mean time, that's how I prefer to play.
I also know I won't beat the Highest Score ever recorded.
I did not rule out completely using HO II for shoes. I wont' go back to halves

**Secretariat** · 07-13-2022, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Gramazeka

It's generally correct to hunt for the increased probability of A and tens in the remaining decks. Everything else will give you a meager effect. No PE will pull out what BC (Halves) and IC ( unb Ten count ) give you. Especially with shoes game.

Tell me more about the IC Unb Ten count. Not sure what it is

In the example above +16/14/44/64 + 16 is already insurance geared but the way i do it is adding the 14 aces to the 44 789s for 58. I already know there are 64 tens and there are more tens than 23456s. So it's a no brainer for insurance.

With +6/14/44/64 there are more 23456s than tens. The decision is closer. Using the same process, I would be two card shorts of the 33.3% ten ratio.

**Gramazeka** · 07-14-2022, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by Secretariat

Tell me more about the IC Unb Ten count. Not sure what it is

In the example above +16/14/44/64 + 16 is already insurance geared but the way i do it is adding the 14 aces to the 44 789s for 58. I already know there are 64 tens and there are more tens than 23456s. So it's a no brainer for insurance.

With +6/14/44/64 there are more 23456s than tens. The decision is closer. Using the same process, I would be two card shorts of the 33.3% ten ratio.

Let's wait Cacarulo.))