Foxwoods/Mohegan Sun

[aceside]

What really matters is the certainty of your prediction on your next hand. I counted 6-deck successfully both h17 and s17 games, but s17 is a lot easier to count with my HiLo system. I haven’t had any luck with machine shuffled 8-deck games, but a little luck with hand shuffled ones.

[Mr. Ed]

What do you say? This is a huge mistake. H17 and s17 make a tiny difference for counters but 6-deck and 8-deck make a huge difference.

Thank you - if you have some time, please let me know the actual value of these two differences in EV. I may be wrong, but I thought 6v8 deck was a 2 basis point difference (0.02%) while S17vH17 was a 26 basis point difference.

[Norm]

What really matters is the certainty of your prediction on your next hand. I counted 6-deck successfully both h17 and s17 games, but s17 is a lot easier to count with my HiLo system. I haven’t had any luck with machine shuffled 8-deck games, but a little luck with hand shuffled ones.

Utter nonsense. H17 vs. S17 is highly important and your empirical evidence has little, if any, meaning.

[aceside]

The only problem is you often will not encounter any TC=+4 opportunities in 4 hours of playing. In 8-decks.

[Norm]

H17 vs. S17 is very important, more so than 6 or 8 decks. Penetration is far more important than number of decks. I have no idea why you would say S17 has a "tiny difference for counters".

[aceside]

I have to admit that S17 is a much better game for HiLo counters, just because it has a much better betting correlation than h17 games have. My major losses are on h17 8-deck games, but this is because these games are easily available for me though.

[Mr. Ed]

What really matters is the certainty of your prediction on your next hand. I counted 6-deck successfully both h17 and s17 games, but s17 is a lot easier to count with my HiLo system. I haven’t had any luck with machine shuffled 8-deck games, but a little luck with hand shuffled ones.

Would you explain to me how s17 a lot easier to count with your HiLo system? Personally, The House’s rules have zero impact on my ability to count, unless they hide cards from me, or don’t show me the hole card, or something crazy like that.

Is your “HiLo system” different than the standard HiLo?

[Norm]

S17 is better because S17 is a better rule. The dealer has less of a chance to improve her hand.

[Mr. Ed]

I have to admit that S17 is a much better game for HiLo counters, just because it has a much better betting correlation than h17 games have. My major losses are on h17 8-deck games, but this is because these games are easily available for me though.

Please explain “betting correlation”. Using the Kelley Criteria, I correlate my bet to my advantage, whether the rule is S17 or H17. Do you do something else?

[Norm]

Mr. Ed, just ignore him.

[aceside]

Please explain “betting correlation”. Using the Kelley Criteria, I correlate my bet to my advantage, whether the rule is S17 or H17. Do you do something else?

Let me explain this a little more. For HiLo counters, your advantage mainly comes from excess numbers of tens and aces. Hilo fits better for S17 games than for h17 because the count tag number -1 is accurate for the ace card in s17 games but not for h17 games. In h17 games, a ace card should be counted as -0.85.

[Norm]

And that's why there exist different indices for S17 and H17. As for Kelly, of course you should adjust the bets, as H17 is substantially worse than S17 -- as Mr. Ed suggests.

[21forme]

Thank you - if you have some time, please let me know the actual value of these two differences in EV. I may be wrong, but I thought 6v8 deck was a 2 basis point difference (0.02%) while S17vH17 was a 26 basis point difference.

You've been here a while and should know everything aceside posts is incorrect.