Back in the Game

**highrollerjw** · 03-20-2022, 09:30 AM

After taking about 10 years off from serious counting while building out a business, I am back in the game as a piece of my overall investment strategy.

Allocated Bankroll $25,000
Spread 1-40 units
2% ROR
6d H17 DAS
Score is about 35, but playing with no cover, in a government run establishment, they cannot back me off, or change the rules of the game for individual players.

I am playing about 5-7 hours per week on Saturday evenings. Back in the day I used to be able to back count 2 tables at a time with the way the casino was setup, but unfortunately they have drastically cut down on their tables by adding electronic betting stations and an auto shuffler and eliminating the $5 tables. The higher limit tables are now busier and they have less of them open, but the game is still very beatable.

I will update this thread weekly with my results and session highlights/musings.

**highrollerjw** · 03-20-2022, 09:31 AM

Weekly session #4 since returning to the game, finally:

6 hour session
$1,560 in total buy-ins
$5,677 Cash-Out
$4,117 Profit on the night

Highlights of the night:
1) $250 bet at TC of +5, showing 10 against a dealer face, double down and pull an ace, the table couldn't believe how stupid and then how lucky I was.

2) TC of +9 on the final hand of the shoe, my max bet out on the table 2 spots at $250, I get 10/10 and 8/8 for hands dealer is showing a 6. I split the 10s (everyone is angry as usual), get 14 and 15, Then split the 8s one 8 draws a 3 for a double down 20, and the second is 18. Total money on the table is $1,250. Guy in the anchor position has 6/7, he signals to hit, dealer asks him if he is sure and I remind him the dealer has a busting card, thankfully he stands. Dealer flips over an 8, at this point I am standing up and feeling that rush of adrenaline, as this would determine if the night was a boom or bust.... dealer pulls a 2 for 16, and finally a 10 to bust out paying the entire table. Everyone now still thought I was crazy for splitting 10s but also loved that I had done it at the same time. I sit down and take my jacket off, too cool off as I collect my chips from the hand.

3) Guy sits down says its his first time in the casino, I tell him to assume the dealer will draw a 10, so he doesn't burn cards in high counts, fellow learns he can double down and begins doubling everything, 13-16 against a face no big deal, he is winning for a time and it was very entertaining, but eventually he busts out like the all do, but he had lots of fun, and so did I.

4) Met another card counter, this would be about the 5th one I have met at my home casinos, seems to know what he is doing. Took a 20 minute break for a Jr. Chicken meal and chatted with him for a bit. He was impressed with my betting spread, the other counters I have run across other than 1 of them do not spread properly to actually make counting worthwhile, without a proper spread, there is no money to be made. Good guy hope he sticks with it, I suggested a replenish able session bankroll to make it worthwhile. I wish him the best if he chooses to stick with it, I believe he is a member of this forum.

**aceside** · 03-20-2022, 10:02 AM

You are a lucky man! I see a potential problem here. If you play on Saturday nights, the tables will be all packed up with 6 players, so your theoretical SCORE should be 1/6 of what you presented. Norm’s SCORE calculation assumed heads-up play conditions. Am I right?

**highrollerjw** · 03-20-2022, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by aceside

You are a lucky man! I see a potential problem here. If you play on Saturday nights, the tables will be all packed up with 6 players, so your theoretical SCORE should be 1/6 of what you presented. Norm’s SCORE calculation assumed heads-up play conditions. Am I right?

Hey Aceside, Powersim was set up to assume 6 players, 5 playing basic strategy, to get this score calculation. We were averaging 3 players for the entire night, perfect for wonging out at negative counts.

**Green21** · 03-20-2022, 12:06 PM

Seems like a low SCORE given your spread. I’m guessing the penetration isn’t that good? Do you know what your N0 is?

**highrollerjw** · 03-20-2022, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Green21

Seems like a low SCORE given your spread. I’m guessing the penetration isn’t that good? Do you know what your N0 is?

N0 is about 31,000 hands per my calculation, estimated 350-400hrs of play.

**21forme** · 03-20-2022, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by aceside

If you play on Saturday nights, the tables will be all packed up with 6 players, so your theoretical SCORE should be 1/6 of what you presented. Norm’s SCORE calculation assumed heads-up play conditions. Am I right?

No. You are wrong, as usual.

SCORE is not inversely proportional to the number of players. And it's Don's SCORE.

**aceside** · 03-21-2022, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by 21forme

No. You are wrong, as usual.

SCORE is not inversely proportional to the number of players. And it's Don's SCORE.

Let me revise my math here. SCORE=1000*(w/v)^2. When there are 6 players at the same table, the win rate becomes w/6, and therefore, the SCORE becomes 1/36 of the heads-up value. Here the variance v does not change very much with the number of players. Is this correct?

BTW, I firmly believe intellectual properties belong to all mankind. I am willing to share all my posts by all means.

**Norm** · 03-21-2022, 10:51 AM

Intellectual properties do not belong to all mankind as per the U.S. Constitution and the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

**21forme** · 03-21-2022, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by aceside

Let me revise my math here. SCORE=1000*(w/v)^2. When there are 6 players at the same table, the win rate becomes w/6, and therefore, the SCORE becomes 1/36 of the heads-up value. Here the variance v does not change very much with the number of players. Is this correct?

BTW, I firmly believe intellectual properties belong to all mankind. I am willing to share all my posts by all means.

As ALWAYS, you are wrong, again.

You have no intellect, so stop sharing.

**DSchles** · 03-21-2022, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by aceside

Let me revise my math here. SCORE=1000*(w/v)^2. When there are 6 players at the same table, the win rate becomes w/6, and therefore, the SCORE becomes 1/36 of the heads-up value. Here the variance v does not change very much with the number of players. Is this correct?

BTW, I firmly believe intellectual properties belong to all mankind. I am willing to share all my posts by all means.

Quick attempt at an explanation. SCORE is defined as an hourly risk-adjusted win rate that conforms to many different stipulations that I enumerate in my book. For the 6-deck game, one of those conditions is that we are four players at the table, and we play last. That makes a total of five hands. If we are six players at the table, for a total of seven hands, then someone's hourly win rate (but not SCORE!) will be roughly 5/7 of the SCORE.

Try not to confuse the two ideas. In short, you can change the hourly win rate by varying any of multiple variables for a given game. But, you can't change the SCORE for that game, for the very reason that SCORE is designed to be a metric that can be used as an easy way to compare the desirability of different games.

Don

**Norm** · 03-22-2022, 08:46 AM

Archive.com obeys copyright, exclusion requests, and DMCA filings. As an example, if you ask for an archive of this site, you will receive the following:

Sorry.

This URL has been excluded from the Wayback Machine.

This is because I long ago specified that this site not be archived as I wanted to give the right to delete posts to users without them appearing elsewhere.

**Norm** · 03-22-2022, 09:02 AM

Well, if you look up New York Times on Archive.com, the latest version they have is 1926, beyond copyright protection. YouTube has a great deal of copyrighted material. They will immediately remove upon a DMCA filing. I filed so may, they first told me I only had to request a removal without bothering with a DMCA. Later, they just automatically deleted the stuff without me asking. Google used to be awful. I spent six months arguing with their lawyers before they deleted a trademark infringement. I demanded this because they used Casino Verite Blackjack to link to a scam site. That was also long ago. After a few suits, they now behave better. I also had someone copy the entirety of the first several chapters of my book and claimed he copyrighted it. I got it removed from two sites. But, was told I couldn't go after the guy because the German courts had literally ruled him insane.

I should mention that Archve.com has been the subject of several lawsuits, a major one about to start, and they used as an excuse to distribute books, Covid.

As with many rights, at times you must exercise your right to retain it. That's why I'm gleeful when someone wins a suit against a casino.