Mason Malmuth: Doubling Down on Aces???

[Secretariat]

It’s an honor to now have Mason Malmuth on this Forum

I read his “Blackjack Essays” many years ago when I had
10% of the knowledge I have today about the game of blackjack.

On page 79 of Blackjack Essays, there’s a section: Doubling Down on Aces
I didn’t side count 789s back then but now that I do, I occasionally hit my AA with a surplus of 789s. Doubling down with AA, though, I never did.

Mr. Malmuth did not recommend the Aces DD but said on page 81 that in “rare situations”, it may be worthwhile to do so.

So today, I found at KCs’ BJStrat some scenarios where Doubling Down with AA is indeed the best play but detecting those rare conditions is possible only with a multiparameter count.

I never forgot Mr. Malmuth’ words of wisdom on page 82.

1) “The smart gambler is always winning to examine new ideas”
2) “The serious blackjack player should be interested in more sophisticated counts, multiparameter counts, key card concepts..”
3) “…be willing to examine a seemingly foolish scheme”

Anyone doubling down on Aces?

[bejammin075]

Doubling on AA would have similarities and differences to doubling on 12. I looked at doubling on 12 v 2 to 6 recently, the EV ranges from -35% to -50% off the top. The EV for hitting AA has to be better than hitting 12 because you have the option to hit AA again if you get A, 2, 3, 4, 5 but you’d probably stand if you hit a 12 and got those cards. Seems to me that doubling AA versus hitting, or versus splitting, you’d need an overall very negative deck composition (fewer tens) so a minimum bet is out, and I’d guess that even if you side counted a block of 789, it would be correct to double rather than hit or split as often as a blue moon while being bit by a shark while getting struck by lightning.


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[UNCBear4SJ]

I’d guess that even if you side counted a block of 789, it would be correct to double rather than hit or split as often as a blue moon while being bit by a shark while getting struck by lightning.

Ha! Thanks! I literally laughed out loud. Much needed after the day I had.

[Norm]

as often as a blue moon while being bit by a shark while getting struck by lightning.

I hate when that happens.

[Secretariat]

You know, I see that every day, Norm.
Not so much for bears though.

[LoKee]

I'm just getting started with advantage play, but I doubt if I will ever DD AA in my future playing career.

[Midwest Player]

Mason Malmuth? Never heard of the guy. From doing a Google search it appears his specialty is poker and not blackjack. As far as doubling down on Aces I only know of a few places that allow it, and those places allow double for less. In the glory years of BJ21 MathProf made an excellent post on when to do this.

I assumed you were talking about doubling after split

[21forme]

Never heard of the guy.

If you never heard of him, then he can't be real.

[aceside]

As far as doubling down on Aces I only know of a few places that allow it, and those places allow double for less. In the glory years of BJ21 MathProf made an excellent post on when to do this.

Where are these places for doubling down on a pair of aces without splitting them? Are there in Spanish 21 double-double down?

[DSchles]

Where are these places for doubling down on a pair of aces without splitting them? Are there in Spanish 21 double-double down?

You're asking this question backwards. It is very rare to be allowed to split aces and then, if you receive an ace, to double the A-A. See Wong's Basic Blackjack, pages 110-111, for the proper strategy and a discussion. As bejammin075 just mentioned, you can always double A-A as your original hand (so long as soft doubling is permitted), if you're stupid enough to do it, so I'm not sure what you're thinking.

Don

[21forme]

See Wong's Basic Blackjack, pages 110-111,

But that's in a book...

[DSchles]

But that's in a book...

Oh, right! My bad. Wouldn't want to confuse anyone with the facts.

Don

[aceside]

You're asking this question backwards. It is very rare to be allowed to split aces and then, if you receive an ace, to double the A-A. See Wong's Basic Blackjack, pages 110-111, for the proper strategy and a discussion. As bejammin075 just mentioned, you can always double A-A as your original hand (so long as soft doubling is permitted), if you're stupid enough to do it, so I'm not sure what you're thinking.

Don

My question was lost in my bad wording. I intended to ask: what situations justify the doubling down on a pair of aces?

I actually looked up the book section you mentioned. It was about two casinos in the 1970s, where they allowed doubling down on a pair of ace-ace but did not allow hitting them. That was peculiar.