Backoff

[Raybabyray]

So, I when through a lot of GWAE interviews, and a lot of discussion boards. A lot of successful card counters are just doing straight counting and claiming they don’t take much covers: they don’t tip, don’t use player card, they don’t drink alcohol, they don’t play side bet, etc.. And they try bet as much as they can afford, usually more than $500x2, and they play as much as casinos would let them, and move on to the next one.

I tried this method myself at many commercial and tribal casinos. My top bet is 2x$300 or 2x$150(at smaller shops). The most I ever gotten away was 6hours of game play, and the least is like 30 seconds. So within 100 hours of purely of game play, while traveling across states, with $50K bankroll, I burnt out every casino within 8 states next to where I live. I still have my identities well covered, but my pictures must be everywhere and my solo game is completely dead.

I think the era of straight counting is dead.

Edit 1: Ok. My wife did remind me 2 instances where I played more than 6 hours in tribal casinos, and 18 hours at a crappy commercial casino before I got kicked out. But still, these are tribal casinos, and what happens if they found out I’m counting?

I’m not complaining bad games or losing strikes. The problem is we can’t get real hours playing high EV to support someone’s living.

I want to be like Yoshi putting 2000hr a year. Casinos won’t let me play over 2000 hours a year with over $50 ev any more.

Edit 2:
I checked my play log. My first 100 hour is great. From 100hr to around 225hr, I burnt 7 stares worthy of casino: more than 30 I believe. I had another 100hr low key play, didn’t get kicked out anywhere but I consider that a wast of time. Now we just finished another trip, we burnt out another 6 casinos in another 2 states except for the tribals. Only gotten 12 hours of play. The EV hardly cover the travelling cost and the casino is getting my pictures in different angles with me in different cloths, I guess.

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[Norm]

Six hours? Don't do that.

[Raybabyray]

Six hours? Don't do that.

Like James said in BC, it is so easy to tell if someone is card counter: regular gamblers don’t even remember basic strategy. For me, during my most recent 250 hours, the 2 person I met who knows basic strategy is both card counters. I talked to 1 and he learned it from blackjack apprenticeship .


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[dalmatian]

You can't count cards in 2021!!

[Raybabyray]

You can't count cards in 2021!!

To be come a millionaire playing alone, probably not going to be easy.


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[Chaconne]

I have been counting cards full-time for over five years and have made a solid living at it. There is much to learn beyond 1s and 0s to make it work full-time and sustainably. Just because it's hard to do doesn't mean it's impossible. I find counting to be doable, enjoyable, and profitable in 2021. But I'm not trying to convince anyone. The last thing I need is more full-timers bombarding casinos the way Yoshi did.

[Raybabyray]

I have been counting cards full-time for over five years and have made a solid living at it. There is much to learn beyond 1s and 0s to make it work full-time and sustainably. Just because it's hard to do doesn't mean it's impossible. I find counting to be doable, enjoyable, and profitable in 2021. But I'm not trying to convince anyone. The last thing I need is more full-timers bombarding casinos the way Yoshi did.

Good to know. It is definitely difficult. However, for me, it is the numbers don’t add up. I believe many are sitting on the same situation.

Personally, I just can’t get the level of EV ($60/hr or higher) without too much travel. Travel kills profit. If I don’t play for as much EV, i might play longer but I could just work longer hours and get as much paid without travel. Plus, playing a lower EV doesn’t guarantee longer game.


I wonder if you could share some more experience.

Are you doing straight counting? Or you employ other advantage play in the mean time? We don’t need to be specific here.

What kind of EV and hours are you making so you refer to as solid living?

What level of traveling do you have to do to sustain AP as full time job during 2020 and 2021?


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[Chaconne]

My income is almost entirely from straight counting, which supports a family of three. I play 60-80 hours a month across a multi-state region that contains dozens of good games. No game I play is further than 10 hours away by car, so I never have to fly. I make judicious use of players cards and comps to support free hotel rooms and food while on the road. I maintain careful schedules of where I've played, what days, what shifts, and rotate them all carefully as to minimize backoffs. When I do get backed off, I stay away a few months and then return with a new look and possibly a new name. My bet spread varies depending on the tolerance of the casino, never going above 2x$250. My EV varies from between $60/hr to $150/hr. My annual income from counting has ranged from $80k to $120k. It's not a lot, but it has paid the bills and allowed for continuing growth of my bankroll.

[Raybabyray]

My income is almost entirely from straight counting, which supports a family of three. I play 60-80 hours a month across a multi-state region that contains dozens of good games. No game I play is further than 10 hours away by car, so I never have to fly. I make judicious use of players cards and comps to support free hotel rooms and food while on the road. I maintain careful schedules of where I've played, what days, what shifts, and rotate them all carefully as to minimize backoffs. When I do get backed off, I stay away a few months and then return with a new look and possibly a new name. My bet spread varies depending on the tolerance of the casino, never going above 2x$250. My EV varies from between $60/hr to $150/hr. My annual income from counting has ranged from $80k to $120k. It's not a lot, but it has paid the bills and allowed for continuing growth of my bankroll.

I appreciate the sharing. This is very realistic out come in my opinion.

I just want to warn people, these legendary story can’t be easily repeated. I don’t know if someone can still drop 2500 hours a year and get more than half a million out of the casino any more.


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[CharlotteHoffman]

I appreciate the sharing. This is very realistic out come in my opinion.

I just want to warn people, these legendary story can’t be easily repeated. I don’t know if someone can still drop 2500 hours a year and get more than half a million out of the casino any more.


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Oh!
Had not see all these this way, so insightful.

[Raybabyray]

Oh!
Had not see all these this way, so insightful.

I hope you are not being sarcastic. A lot of stories are made out to be someone making millions within a couple of years. Maybe couple years ago with straight counting, I’m pretty certain not any more. Especially, if someone already making over $100k/yr, this might not worthy of anything beyond part time.


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[Freightman]

Raybabyray said

So within 100 hours of purely of game play, while traveling across states, with $50K bankroll, I burnt out every casino within 8 states next to where I live. I still have my identities well covered, but my pictures must be everywhere and my solo game is completely dead.

You come across as a total (possibly robotic) slash and burn player. I don’t know how long you’ve played, but subtlety, artistry and basic common sense - basically milking stores over the long haul still makes very good money and keeps you playing for the long term. Stores don’t particularly like it when they think you view them as an ATM. Makes for a short career, especially when your bankroll is limited to (believe you said) 50k.

Almost all of my back offs are based are cumulative dollar wins. I’ve played for years and have made a substantial amount of money.

[Raybabyray]

Raybabyray said


You come across as a total (possibly robotic) slash and burn player. I don’t know how long you’ve played, but subtlety, artistry and basic common sense - basically milking stores over the long haul still makes very good money and keeps you playing for the long term. Stores don’t particularly like it when they think you view them as an ATM. Makes for a short career, especially when your bankroll is limited to (believe you said) 50k.

Almost all of my back offs are based are cumulative dollar wins. I’ve played for years and have made a substantial amount of money.

Thanks for sharing. Do you mind sharing more information?

What are your EV and bet spread can you get away playing long term?

Do you travel and if so how do you manage the cost?

Do you use players card?

Do you employ other advantage play besides blackjack counting?


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