HI -opt2 optimal wonging out bet ramp for DD ?

[pokerfan]

Double deck game. H17 and DAS, no surrender. PEN is 50%. I usually wong out at TC -4 using hi-opt2 system and play with 2 or 3 players on the table.
whats the optimal betting ramp for this game? my spread is 25-200.

[Freightman]

I’m not a hi opt 2 player, however there seems to be something inherently wrong with your post. Firstly, I’ll play (not many will) 50% pen, but heads up for at least most of my time at the table.

Now, with 3 other players at the table, you’ll be lucky to score 4 hands per round. Then, wonging out at true 4 (hi opt 2 count), you’ll embellish (sarcastically) yourself with your table mates potentially wonging out after the first hand is played. So, wonging out at -true 4 with a 1-8 spread, you’ll be the leading candidate for a security escort to the door.

My suggestion, provided your bankroll can handle it, is 1-8 with $50 min, dropping down to $25 at -2 or -4, without wonging out. I haven’t simmed this, but essentially it works out to a 1-16 spread which is almost as fast an escort as your approach. Sim it to see how this pans out. I’m guessing the store you’re playing is quite tolerant. Also heck out playing 2 squares dropping to 1 in shitty counts.

[pokerfan]

yes, the store is very tolerant. They dont care about it. players on my table often give me some annoying look when i wong out at TC -4(hi-opt2 count). Who cares?
I dont wong in though(you can only skip one hand). Min $50 is way too high with my bankroll. Currently, my betting ramp is $25(<=TC +2),$50(TC +3),$75(TC +4),$125(TC +5),$150(TC +6,TC +7),$200(TC +8 or above). Sometimes i dont play the whole shoe at all when TC tanks after first hand. However, i can move on to next shoe quickly with 2 or 3 players on the table.

[pokerfan]

My suggestion, provided your bankroll can handle it, is 1-8 with $50 min, dropping down to $25 at -2 or -4, without wonging out. I haven’t simmed this, but essentially it works out to a 1-16 spread which is almost as fast an escort as your approach. Sim it to see how this pans out. I’m guessing the store you’re playing is quite tolerant. Also heck out playing 2 squares dropping to 1 in shitty counts.

i probably need to raise my bet to $50 at TC +2,any thoughts? I often start raising my bet to $50 at TC +2(CVCX optimal ramp) when i have the rare chance to play HeadsUp. Aggressive wonging out is the only way to beat this 50% PEN crowded DD table with reasonable win rate and variance. Do you think so?

[Freightman]

Subject to personal tolerance and bankroll restrictions
Off the top of my head and not knowing exact rules, I would guess house edge about .65. This would make break even with the house at about true 1.5 - so going to $50 at true 2 or even a bit less is fine. At true 3, your optimal bet is probably $100. This makes true 4 and 5 about $150. so, at true 5, 6 and above you should be at $200. A double deck game with 50% pen is still very volatile and with crowded conditions, you don’t have the luxury of artistry, which means you’ll have to as subtle as a brick shithouse.

You're not ramping fast enough. You're not only sharing the table with other players, your ramping is inefficient. This is what I do for simming 6 deck at the table. Assume house edge of .5 for my typical game (actually a bit better). Take deck pen into account. Further assume heads up play and further know that any other variables can be extrapolated. Further assume $25 min max $1000.

Actually, this not quite I do, but it’s the best example.
Assume .5 house edge. $25 negative and true 0. Trade variance with the house (sometimes I do and sometimes I don’t) by going to $50 (break even) at true 1. True 2 is either $50 or $100. True 3 doubles my advantage over true 2 so… I double my bet. True 4 increases my edge by about 33% over true 3 , so true 3 is either $75 or $150. I’m sure you get the point.

Now, for what I really do (and having the luxury of a significant bankroll), I’m running 2 independent ramps in the same shoe, eg. 20$25-$250 and $50-$500. I have my own set if rules as to what differentiates and I won’t get into them now.

I can take the same scenario as above with a $50 min game, however, I prefer to run things somewhat tighter, as in the initial example that I gave.

Getting back to your game and game conditions - it’s shit and will give you variance headaches.

[pokerfan]

Thanks. i play very aggressively(CVCX optimal betting) when i play alone on the table. However, i often lower my bets and play conservatively when i am allowed to wong out aggressively. Sometimes, i just wong in at TC +3 when dealers dont even care what i'm doing. So far it works for me with low variance and reasonable winnings. My overall goal is to lower my variance without sacrificing EV too much given that i dont have a big bankroll.
my current bankroll at this level is about 15k. The result is very good If i can wong out and wong in even with 1-6 spread(25-150).