New member checking in

**Standing Turkey** · 05-19-2021, 07:11 AM

Well I have lurked long enough. Been training on an ios app for months. Did a two hour session at a local casino a week or so ago and actually did fairly well. Going to go back for a couple of hours today. I have a few questions. I am sorry if these are noob questions or answered in other parts of the forum but feel free to flame me and call me stupid anyway.

1. Do you guys give your reward card to earn points or do you try to be low key as possible. Keep in mind I only have one casino within driving distance. If I get trespassed no more casino play for me without hopping on a plane.

2. Bet spreads and when to ramp them up. 10 to 1 seems to be the general idea on the spread but when are you at max 10 units. True 5 or 6? When do you go to two hands?

3. Wonging in and out. What is the general idea of wonging in and out. Do you guys quit playing at a tru -6 or so? Do you play a fresh shoe or do you wong in at a tru +1 or so?

Any other tips for a new degenerate blackjack player would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

**Papa Gee** · 05-19-2021, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Standing Turkey

Well I have lurked long enough. Been training on an ios app for months. Did a two hour session at a local casino a week or so ago and actually did fairly well. Going to go back for a couple of hours today. I have a few questions. I am sorry if these are noob questions or answered in other parts of the forum but feel free to flame me and call me stupid anyway.

1. Do you guys give your reward card to earn points or do you try to be low key as possible. Keep in mind I only have one casino within driving distance. If I get trespassed no more casino play for me without hopping on a plane.

2. Bet spreads and when to ramp them up. 10 to 1 seems to be the general idea on the spread but when are you at max 10 units. True 5 or 6? When do you go to two hands?

3. Wonging in and out. What is the general idea of wonging in and out. Do you guys quit playing at a tru -6 or so? Do you play a fresh shoe or do you wong in at a tru +1 or so?

Any other tips for a new degenerate blackjack player would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

I'll let others with more experience chime in, but generally the answer is "it depends."

1. If playing as a refusal won't bring undue heat, I'd probably lean towards short, unrated sessions. But if it's a tiny place with three tables it may not matter whether you play rated or not - they'll get to know you

2. Depends on the game. Spreading 1 to 10 for a shoe game is different than the same spread on a double-deck game. True +5 or +6 seems like a reasonable time to have your max bet out. You'll get a sense of what your local shop tolerates from trial-and-error and/or from local players

3. Also depends on the game, but I'd be gone well before a true -6 (assuming COVID restrictions are no factor and getting another seat isn't tough). Mid-entry depends on the shop

Good luck!

**Standing Turkey** · 05-19-2021, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Papa Gee

I'll let others with more experience chime in, but generally the answer is "it depends."

1. If playing as a refusal won't bring undue heat, I'd probably lean towards short, unrated sessions. But if it's a tiny place with three tables it may not matter whether you play rated or not - they'll get to know you

2. Depends on the game. Spreading 1 to 10 for a shoe game is different than the same spread on a double-deck game. True +5 or +6 seems like a reasonable time to have your max bet out. You'll get a sense of what your local shop tolerates from trial-and-error and/or from local players

3. Also depends on the game, but I'd be gone well before a true -6 (assuming COVID restrictions are no factor and getting another seat isn't tough). Mid-entry depends on the shop

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply!

1. Refusal is what I have been doing without any issue but the ole ball and chain likes to get drunk and stay in free rooms so I have been thinking about trying to build rewards to appease her.

2. All of the blackjack I play is a 6 deck shoe game dealer hit soft 17.

3. Could you possibly elaborate a little more on this point. Where do you say enough is enough on a low count? Do you just say "this shoe is cursed" to the dealer and wait for another shoe without moving or do you hop from table to table quite a bit? Sometimes it is hard to get a seat so I have been doing the former. This particular place allows mid shoe entry but sometimes the players grumble or flat out ask you to not come in. I have yet to push it and come in anyway to see what happens. I imagine it would bring quite the attention.

4. Still curious if there is a general rule on when to go to two hands or even possibly three if the bankroll will allow? tc +5 or +6?

**21forme** · 05-19-2021, 11:20 AM

Welcome!

On a 6D H17 game, you should spread at least 1-12, unless you are sitting out all negative counts.

Speaking of negative counts, you may want to purchse Blackjack Attack 3, written by our very own forum member DSchles. See pp. 345-69 for detailed info on Optimal Departure Point. You'd be surprised how early you should exit a shoe, assuming there is another game starting at an adjacent table.

In a shoe game, you will rarely see counts greater than +5 (or -5).

If there are other players at the table, it is generally better to play 2 hands when you have an advantage (True 2 or higher in a 6D H17 game). If you are playing alone, stick with one hand. Be aware that spreading to two hands may cause the casino to watch you more closely, especially in Vegas.

All your quesations about optimal bet spread, etc. can be answered with QFIT's simulation software, CVCX and CVData.

**Standing Turkey** · 05-19-2021, 11:43 AM

Thank you for the reply! This place seems quite welcoming. I will definitely pick up a copy of the recommended book. I have been looking at the qfit software packages for a while and it seems like a fairly steep learning curve and quite expensive. Although I am a computer guy that doesn't blink at losing a couple grand at the casino so I guess expense is relative here. Thank you for the info.

**21forme** · 05-19-2021, 12:11 PM

CVData can get fairly complex in setup, if you're doing custom stuff, but CVCX is fairly easy to get the hang of and should be sufficient at your stage.

Always nice to have a new member who is humble and appreciative of responses, rather than a belligerent, clueless know-it-all. Unfortunately, the latter is more common.

**dalmatian** · 05-19-2021, 05:55 PM

Welcome Standing Turkey!

If it is your local store then definitely play rated and try to employ betting and playing cover. And learn to rat hole chips. You should receive good comps and even win slightly but the key is to not lose youre local store. You can always fly other places if you want more EV but you can never get back your lost local shop.......

Dalmatian

**Standing Turkey** · 05-20-2021, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by dalmatian

Welcome Standing Turkey!

If it is your local store then definitely play rated and try to employ betting and playing cover. And learn to rat hole chips. You should receive good comps and even win slightly but the key is to not lose youre local store. You can always fly other places if you want more EV but you can never get back your lost local shop.......

Dalmatian

Thank you for the welcoming! Is it fairly common to be backed off? I did play rated yesterday because I feel like my sheer stupidity will provide plenty enough cover for now. I misplayed two deviations yesterday due to nerves in a two hour session. Its hard to simulate that casino environment on an ios device. My heart was pounding out of my chest the entire time. It has little to do with the money either which is strange but I guess I just need more experience. Overall I finished up 11 units but I was up as high as 35 units at one point. Caught a couple bad hands on a positive count that took the wind right out of my sails and I called it a day. Very fun and exciting none the less.