Hello! Noob here trying to learn to count Spanish 21 recreationally. After digging through old threads here I get the impression that Secret Monkey Count is ancient technology and all the real APs use ace side counts, but I have enough trouble keeping a single count and I'm not overly concerned about volatility. So yeah, can anyone point me to the index charts? (I'm assuming they're different than the charts in Katarina Walker's book.)
Game is S17 6D. Thanks!
I would be skeptical too ..
I can't comment on sp21 s17 but I have studied h17xxx and found that tagging the Ace -2 while keeping Kats indices(+4) actually performs worse than just sticking with Ace -1, proved thru sims on cvdata. PE is important in sp21 and tagging the Ace half weighted as -1 is similar to a Zen approach.
If you go with Ace -2 then you'll need accurate indices .. but your PE will stink.
Ya thats a fair understanding. But if you have the right indices it should outperform Kats hilo.Originally Posted by lifetilt
Someone here should have them .. I found soft double indices in an old file I had ..
SMC S17 soft double indices for full deck resolution and flooring:
A2v5: +9
A2v6: +12
A3v5: +8
A3v6: +9
A4v5: +8
A4v6: -3
A5v5: -1
A5v6: -8
A6v4: -1
A6v5: -6
A6v6: -10
A7v3: +7
A7v4: -1
A7v5: -5
A7v6: -6
A8v4: +11
A8v5: +8
A8v6: +9
A9v5: +11
[QUOTE=lifetilt;296279]Thanks for the reply. So the point of the Monkey Count was better BE at the expense of PE? Or is there something I'm not understanding.[/QUOTE
For Spanish 21, S17 use Kat's Hi-Lo and simply keep 5mAc side count for betting only - use HL + 5mAc for betting only and use HL for all strategy changes.
5mAc = Five minus Ace side count where you count 5's as +1 and Aces as -1.
I use a more powerful system with simpler adjustments which I will not go into here.
Last edited by bjanalyst; 03-13-2021 at 04:31 AM.
i ran cv data with smc and added +4 to the Kat's indices and got results that appeared to outperform what Kat published. That said to compare correctly would need to adjust bet ramps to make sure that i am comparing apples to apples - not sure of the ramp that Kat used in her book and unfortunately she is not around to ask. I tried to generate SMC indices using CVData but wasnt satisfied with the results - not sure i had set up correctly and havent diddled with it in a while. Would like to go back and update my study of Spanish at some point but imo +4 approach is reasonable and should yield better results than Kats count.
Cohiba
Instead of using the level 2 Monkey Count can you do sims for Spanish 21 S17 using Kat's original HL for all playing strategy variations and use HL + 5mAc for betting and see what happens. Using HL and 5mAc, all counts are level one and no new indices need to be learned since you are using Kat's HL indices for all playing strategy decisions. Only betting is changed using (HL + 5mAc) for betting instead of HL. Everything else is the same as Kat's original system.
If you want to be precise and adjust the betting ramps then for each HL true count player's basic strategy advantage increases by 0.5% but for each (HL + 5mAc) true count player's basic strategy advantage increases by 0.4%. (HL + 5mAc) has a greater SD than HL so for a given true count, (HL + 5mAc) will reach that true count more often than HL will and thus more betting opportunities are revealed using (HL + 5mAc) for betting.
There are two types of betting errors using the less efficient HL as opposed to more efficient (HL + 5mAc) and they are (1) betting when you should not be betting and (2) not betting when you should be betting. (HL + 5mAc) fixes both of these HL betting errors.
Last edited by bjanalyst; 03-14-2021 at 12:23 AM.
You do not need the complication of two counts. All you need is a combination of HiLo and The Ace density. Can somebody just sim the simplest strategy of HiLo+Ace density ?
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HL + 5mAc is a better count for Spanish 21 S17 betting that HL with Ace Side Count (ASC).
You state "You do not need the complication of two counts". But HL with ASC are two counts, the HL and ASC, just like HL with 5mAc are two counts, HL and 5mAc.
The side count of Aces is not enough. You want BOTH a deficiency of 5's and an excess of Aces left in the shoe to improve Spanish 21 S17 betting.
Also the 5mAc is exact whereas a side count of Aces is approximate as you need to track the Aces played and compared to decks played to get Ace deficiency or excess.
5mAc is a very simple level one plus/minus side count recognizing only two ranks and is much simpler, more accurate and more efficient for Spanish 21 S17 betting that just keeping a side count of Aces.
If you did a sim on HL, HL w ASC and HL w 5mAc you would find HL w ASC beats HL and HL w 5mAc beats HL w ASC.
The Ace/Five count is a very weak system and the HiLo is a fine system. Both are for the betting purpose in blackjack. If you combine these two together, you want to get something stronger? I doubt because HiLo+Ace/Five is an much weaker indication of the Ace density. They might cancel each other. The ASC itself is an exact indicator of the Ace density and thus should beat the HiLo+Ace/Five. I don't want Zen because I want the flexibility for many different games.
Email: [email protected]
For Spanish 21 S17 we are not just concerned about the Ace density, we are also concerned about the Five density. You want a deficiency of Fives and an excess of Aces which is what a positive 5mAc indicates.
So if you just kept an ASC (Ace Side Count) with HL and use HL w ASC for betting you would improve HL Spanish 21 S17 betting but if you use HL w 5mAc for Spanish 21 S17 betting you will improve betting even more. Also 5mAc is exact and easier to keep whereas ASC is an estimate as it requires estimating decks played and keeping a track of an ever increasing Aces played as cards are played.
Last edited by bjanalyst; 03-15-2021 at 01:29 AM.
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